ProTalk Discussion: Writing for Magazines - 12/07/04

Enjoy!


Log file opened at: 12/7/04 5:42:29 PM
*** Verla has set the topic on channel #kidlit to Writing for Magazines ProTalk Discussion IN PROGRESS
Verla: Welcome to everyone
cass: Thanks, Verla :)
Verla: Tonight is another of our ProTalk Discussions... and the topic of tonight's session is Writing for Magazines
Verla: what I'd like to do first is ask everyone to share their experience level of writing for (or working with) magazines...
Verla: for instance, I've submitted a zillion stories to magazines and managed to get a whole TWO of them accepted for publication.
MRSfields: I've been published in magazines for adults and kids, I teach magazine writing at ICL, and I run the Kid Magazine Writers eMagazine.
Verla: I also wrote (and had published) a few software reviews for a magazine until it folded...
Lyra: I started my career selling to local Parents Monthly and TEEN Magazine
dlanthomas: submitted many, none sold yet, but I READ a lot of them!
cass: I've done pretty well, in the last 18 months I've sold a dozen things to mags, but none have hit print yet
Anne_Marie: I've been published in Highlights, My Friend and WeeOnes and I've sold to On the Line but it hasn't come out yet.
Verla: (we are VERY fortunate to have Jan here with us tonight to share her expertise... THANK YOU for coming, Mrs Jan Fields)
Anne_Marie: Yay, Jan!
MRSfields: awww
cass: wooo-wooo!
Verla: anyone else have anything they'd like to share about their experiences writing for magazines before we start?
varia: I have none
WriterMel: Yay for Jan!
Verla: (oh, and please don't do any Hellos or goodbyes to people during the session... hold them til the end, please.)
WriterMel: I'm here to LEARN...
Verla: okay.... when you got something published in a magazine, how did it make you feel?
WriterMel: Proud & Incredible!
Verla: (for those that have been published in magazines)
Anne_Marie: It was exciting! I had a byline!
MRSfields: My first sale to a magazine was to Teddy Bear and Friends and I thought -- wow, this is easy, why don't I do this all the time...tsk tsk
Anne_Marie: And I knew I wasn't a totally horrible writer, since it was to Highlights.
Anne_Marie: There's something about that first sale that validates all the time you spend.
cass: I haven't been pubbed yet, but when I got my first acceptance I cried -It felt validating
Verla: I know it made me feel wonderful. The "good feelings" it gave me and the "validation" that what I was writing was good enough to be published more than made up for the dismal payments.
WriterMel: validating -- good word, Cass.
Verla: yep. that's just how I felt, too
Anne_Marie: Notice how all three of us said validate/validating
MRSfields: I had been working in newspapers and I really loved the freedom to write something just because I wanted to
cass: that's interesting. I like that, AM
MRSfields: For me, magazine writing was about freedom
Verla: it's an important thing! You can feel so... worthless and like you are a failure when you are just beating your head against a brick wall constantly
Verla: wasn't it also about income for you, Jan?
dystar: little successes are important
cass: yes, and you have no clue where you stand in the slush, so to make even the tiniest sale makes you feel like you're not delusional
Verla: little successes build into larger ones, too
MRSfields: Well, I made a lot on that first sale, but quickly found out that was not the norm so i left a newspaper position and went into very iffy $$ land
Verla: okay... when you are writing for magazines, what do you do differently than when you are writing a novel or a picture book?
Lyra: Selling to magazines gave me my first thrill of success
Verla: I know I not only write differently for magazines, I "think" differently
Anne_Marie: Well, often, the writing is really different.
Verla: when I'm writing a book, I'm writing for ME
Anne_Marie: PBs are way different than most magazine work.
cass: For magazine writing, I have an agenda
MRSfields: I feel less like I'm gambling when I write for magazines now because I know the field so much better...I am not even sure if you CAN know book publishing/houses/editors like you can magazines
dystar: magazines have a known audience
Anne_Marie: For one thing, many mags have theme lists--would that book publishers did!!
cass: and often known themes
Verla: when I'm writing for magazines, I try to target a specific magazine and write with "their" style, word count, focus, and content in mind.
cass: (there we go again AM)
dystar: the editors can tailor their articles to that
Anne_Marie: We think alike!
cass: :)
MRSfields: And each magazine has a clear style and if you read a lot of them, a clear personality, so few publishers seem to feel that way
WriterMel: Jan, explain what you mean when you say that you're not sure you can know book pubs like you can mag pubs, please?
Verla: right! (what everyone just said)
dystar: yes, I was able to fit into a magazine when I wrote the article the way the editor wanted it
cass: It seems like mags style are consistent over time, so looking at back issue helps, whereas a publisher might change styles to match the market
MRSfields: Well, for example, if I wrote a story for Highlights I would "KNOW" that I can't have siblings fight, no verbal assaults, clear moral residue, stuff like that -- what editor in a book publisher can I know that well?
dystar: it does take a bit of research to find out writing styles and topics for magazines
Verla: magazines usually have a specific and definite word count for stories, articles, etc. (Example: Write a story for "this" age group that is about 500 words long.)
Lyra: publishers are looking for something new and a certain creative "voice" while magazines want writers to fit in with their style
dystar: they're not looking for the next "big seller"
Verla: right
Lyra: It's harder to learn "voice" than to study a magazine's style
MRSfields: With a book editor, it's "I'll know it when I see it" but magazines tend to be more defined because they fill a very specific slot and they tend to have specific agenda
Anne_Marie: Jan, what do you mean by "clear moral residue"?
Verla: and magazines want something that their readers are "expecting" to see each month
Verla: regular "patterns" in stories, articles, activities, etc.
Anne_Marie: Although some are more consistent than others.
MRSfields: Clear moral residue is Highlights talk for it has to have a clear -- though subtle -- lesson element
Anne_Marie: gotcha
dystar: I haven't yet broken into the kidlit magazine markets, but I suspect that is from a lack of research on my part
Verla: I know every time I pick up a Highlights magazine, I'm going to get to look at a "hidden pictures" page, a page with stories and drawings by kids, something to do with nature, a biography, etc.
MRSfields: There was one book editor whose style I finally got to know really well and when I sent a book, she really liked it, but it was too unusual for today's publishing landscape, so even when I research well, I run short
Verla: Humpty Dumpty magazine will always have a "health" focus in it
dystar: I do find that magazine editors are a lot more approachable than most book editors
MRSfields: I just don't have that kind of frustration with magazines
Verla: Magazines can be a great "balm" to soothe the sores of rejection from book publishers, that's for sure
dystar: book publishers can only publish a certain number of books per year
WriterMel: I can understand that - though researching magazines can get very expensive.
cass: Do you think the magazine market is less competitive than the pb or MG/YA market? Less of the I'm going to write my bunny story and get rich kind of slush?
NOTE: PB = Picture Books / MG = Mid Grade books /YA = Young Adult books
dystar: while magazines have several issues, with lots of articles, so they can accept more research
Verla: Okay... for someone who wants to write for magazines, where is the first place you would suggest they start?
Lyra: magazines offer more opportunity is you do nonfiction
MRSfields: But most of the markets I most WANT to publish with are available at my local public library...so free research
Verla: I'd think it would be to go to the local library and/or magazine racks and READ kids' magazines.... cover to cover
Lyra: I think I heard something like 90% of subs are fiction stories, but only about 10% is fiction/90% nonfiction
cass: interesting, Lyra
cass: Between my library and dentist office I have access to the big kid mags
MRSfields: It depends upon what you want to write, really, because if you hate the idea of nonfiction, you're probably not going to succeed with it
dystar: also, ask yourself what you're good at, or have knowledge of
WriterMel: SIGH... I WISH our local library had kid mags...
Lyra: My first for-money sale was the result of writing an article about my interest in collecting kid books
pickles: ours doesn't have the big ones either
pickles: I plan to subscribe and deduct it
cass: to whom did you sell it, Lyra?
Anne_Marie: We have a number of different ones at the library.
Lyra: Even as a fiction author, I have to write blurbs, articles and reviews...lots of non-fiction
pickles: we don't have the bugs
Anne_Marie: All the Carus mags, plus Highlights and several nature ones. Boys Life.
Anne_Marie: None of the Bluffton mags.
cass: wow, AM, that's a lot
Lyra: Cass, it was a local parents magazine
pickles: You are very luck AM (check your IM by the way)
NOTE: Anne_Marie's name is often shortened to AM by people who talk to her a lot in the chat room. IM = an instant message sent to a person by another person in the chat room
cass: sounds like a fun piece, Lyra
Verla: I HATED the thought of writing non-fiction. Didn't want anything to do with it. When I was taking my first ICL (Institute of Children's Literature) course, my instructor told me "I'd found my niche" when I wrote the required non-fiction article. I was... HORRIFIED!
Lyra: It seemed so easy to make that sale, I sent out about another 20 subs to other mags--but not one of them sold
joanclr: I am very interested by all this, I have never yet gotten around to submitting to magazines - but it definitely seems a good thing to do
Verla: I refused to even CONSIDER that I might ever write non-fiction.
MRSfields: Magazine websites are getting better so you can sometimes read quite a number of sample stories/articles online
MRSfields: The bluffton group has new websites and they're great
dystar: I carved out a niche in a magazine because of my experience with dollhouses
Verla: It was several years later that I found my instructor was right -- I WAS good at it -- and even enjoyed writing non-fiction. LOL! (Laughing Out Loud)
MRSfields: That's because you found the STORY in the nonfiction, Verla
MRSfields: You're a storyteller, you just thought a person could only do that with fiction
Verla: that's very true, Jan...
Anne_Marie: Yes, I can think of a brilliant story that can be read online if you are interested in writing for MY FRIEND [snicker]
Lyra: Jan--I like that saying: finding the story in the nonfiction
Verla: heh heh, AM
Lyra: I bet there's an article in that (g)
NOTE: g= grin
Anne_Marie: I like that, too, Lyra, and Jan.
MRSfields: With some magazines, that's essential. HIGHLIGHTS basically only wants nonfiction with a story in it
Verla: and there IS a story in most non-fiction. If you can find it, and explore it, then you could very possibly have a "winner" of a story
MRSfields: Even their science articles tend to have a story, and many times it's a personal experience story
Verla: yep
Lyra: that's a good point, Jan
Verla: so fiction OR non-fiction for magazines, you need to always think "story" for kids
cass: think about how a 7 year old would want to learn about non-fiction --they want stories
dystar: why not? that's the way I prefer to learn...
Verla: and it's not accurate (in my experience) to think that you can "get by" with writing "less well" for magazines than you can for book publishers. You just have to write "differently." (Normally shorter, and with a specific slant or focus to your stories.)
Verla: Okay. Let's say you have written a wonderful story for a magazine. Do you need to think "pictures" in it, like you do for a picture book manuscript?
dystar: the magazine I write for wants "chatty" interviews, so that's the way I write 'em
MRSfields: For the "top magazines" that have some prestige, you really are competing with work that's as good as what's in books
WriterMel: I would think so, Verla.
WriterMel: Am I right?
Verla: I know when I'm writing a picture book, I go through the story and make sure there are between 16 and 22 "pictures" that an illustrator can draw.
cass: Yes, Jan. One of the best stories I've read in any format, was in Ladybug some months ago --brilliant writing
Anne_Marie: Cass, was that Charlie?
cass: yes, AM it was terrific writing, do you think?
Anne_Marie: it was terrific!
MRSfields: For a magazine, you're not going to get more than 4 illustrations and for some, you will likely get one or two, so you have to help the reader see more than you would in a picture book manuscript
Verla: but if I'm writing for a magazine, my story should only have 4 to 8 main "images" that demand to be drawn to fill out the story completely.
WriterMel: I think you'd have to write more concisely for magazines than book publishers.
Verla: ah ha... I over estimated on my images for magazines! No wonder I have such a hard time selling my magazine stories. <grin>
MRSfields: Your word counts can be very tight, but not always, I've sold a 1000 word story to Ladybug
Verla: wow... that's a LONG story for Ladybug!!!!!
MRSfields: :D
MRSfields: Yeah, well, I guess they loved me
Verla: (heck, that's a LONG story for one of my picture book manuscripts. LOL!)
MRSfields: Sorry about the weird smilie guy
dlanthomas: In journalism school, we learned to focus on current topics. Is it the case that mags want timely topics and pbs want timeless?
Verla: that's okay, jan. That just means a HUGE grin - at least that's what :D means to me...
MRSfields: But they will buy pretty long, so will Pockets...I think Highlights has gotten some folks scared because their word counts are so tight
Anne_Marie: Dlan, only to a point.
cass: I know Highlights wants timelss, dlan,
Anne_Marie: Mags sometimes are working 18 months and longer ahead of time.
cass: they know families hang on to issues through siblings, so they don't rerun stories, or trendy stories, language (Highlights)
Verla: yes, I've heard of some magazines (like Cricket) who have has as long as 3 years' time between the time they buy a story and it's finally printed.
Anne_Marie: Highlights can be more. and the Bluffton mags are buying for 2008 and 2009, I think.
MRSfields: The Bluffton group really likes stories with a nostalgic feel to them, but a magazine like American Girls likes a very trendy feeling
cass: Judy Burke said that she had just pubbed a story 15 years after they bought it
dystar: wow
joanclr: wow Cass!
MRSfields: Yes, magazines sit on stories for a long time which can be challenging when you live on your writing income
Anne_Marie: That was right, Verla.
Verla: YIKES! 15 years has got to be some kind of horrible record for longest wait for a magazine story to be published!
Verla: yes, Jan.. and that brings us to another thing about magazines... they often don't pay until PUBLICATION
cass: At least they pay up front. :)
Verla: which can mean it can take a long time to get your money!
MRSfields: That beats my longest...mine was 10 years and the magazine ended up telling me they weren't going to run it even though they paid me.
joanclr: oh boy
Verla: well, at least you got paid, jan
Anne_Marie: Wow, Jan. I'm glad they paid up front.
dystar: do you find it's easier to get non-fiction published, as opposed to fiction?
cass: did you get your rights back?
MRSfields: It wasn't a kid's magazine. As with most things, children's writers get hosed a lot more often than adult writers.
MRSfields: I don't know, cass, it was a timely topic so it was really useless when they didn't run it
Verla: it's always best to ask for payment upon acceptance. If they say no, you can then decide if it's worth it to you to let them hold the manuscript for an undetermined amount of time or not
Anne_Marie: Adult writers sometimes get kill fees, but I don't think any of the kid mags pay them.
Verla: what magazines do you each feel are the "easiest" to get published in?
pickles: I started out in a small religious publication
MRSfields: That's a tough one because it depends on your writing...some of the religious publications are pretty hungry for decent writing but you have to understand them
dystar: the non-paying ones...
pickles: R.A.D.A.R. which later became KidzChat
pickles: also LiveWire their sister mag
MRSfields: Some of the onlines, like Wee Ones and Story Station, are a bit easier than a magazine like Ladybug or Cricket but not a lot
pickles: I enjoyed like a 80% acceptance rate with them for a couple of years
Anne_Marie: WeeOnes is a good one to start with.
cass: I see a lot of newer writers getted pubbed in Saplings.
Anne_Marie: The main thing about the religious mags is you really need to understand the theological differences of the various denominations.
Anne_Marie: Sometimes it doesn't matter but there are often subtle things that do matter.
WriterMel: That's very true, AM
MRSfields: Yes, no pay magazines really salivate when they get good writing but they aren't always a great "clip" so I wouldn't go there unless I had something you couldn't sell
Verla: I got accepted quickest in the Better Health Institute magazines (Humpty Dumpty and Cricket.) But... I had a terrible experience with Humpty Dumpty and the poem/story they bought from me. It was fine when it first came out, but they bought all rights, and two years later they decided to "reprint" it. They felt it needed to be "updated" and one of their editors went into it and literally butchered it. There was only ONE line left of my original story, the meter was off, the rhymes were destroyed, and it was published with MY NAME ON IT.
MRSfields: That was just evil, Verla.
Verla: The only reason I found out about it, was that an internet friend of mine saw it and told me about it.
cass: that's mortifying, Verla
pickles: jan, what makes them "not a good clip"--no respect for a non-paying mag?
dystar: my first "sale" was to a non-paying magazine. No money, but the validation sure felt great!
Verla: I fought with them for over a year to get them to "retract" my name from it... They never did, but they did finally give me back my rights, so at least I know they won't be doing that again.
WriterMel: I remember that, Verla.
Verla: as a result, I HIGHLY recommend NEVER SELLING ALL RIGHTS to anything unless you use a pseudonym so if they DO butcher it then, or in the future, it won't ruin your author name!
dlanthomas: But, Verla, what mags are letting writers retain rights?
Anne_Marie: Verla, I understand your fear, but Highlights buys all rights and I can't imagine them butchering anything.
Anne_Marie: They are way too professional.
Verla: Highlights is an exception, AM...
cass: Can't they still butcher your work without all rights?
Anne_Marie: Yes.
Verla: and I didn't say NOT to sell all rights, dlanthomas... just to not use your real author name on anything that you feel might damage your reputation if they butchered it
dystar: Perhaps Humpty Dumpty has learned its lesson...
katrapp: any place can
dlanthomas: Ahh, understood.
cass: Jan, I'm curious about pickles' questions, did you see it?
MRSfields: No, I'm sorry, my system froze...could you repeat it?
Verla: pickles: jan, what makes them "not a good clip"--no respect for a non-paying mag?
katrapp: oh......
katrapp: even if it is a good mag?
MRSfields: Oh, well, if you consider a clip to be valuable as proof to the next editor that you're a professional, it helps if it's a market the editor recognizes and admires
Verla: yes, they CAN still butcher your story even when they don't buy all rights, but you have more right to complain if they haven't bought all rights, cass.
cass: gotcha, Verla
MRSfields: Many of the free markets come and go before editors really get to know them.
Verla: ahha, jan
MRSfields: Overall, writers seem to be more up on all the markets out there than many editors who are more focused on their own house and those like them.
cass: ditto on the ah
katrapp: especially online markets
Verla: Wow! We only have 15 minutes left!
Anne_Marie: I think that's why Jennifer Reed made such an effort to pay writers, even the pittance that she pays, to do all she could to be sure WeeOnes was perceived as professional and treated writers well.
Verla: anything vital that anyone wants to discuss at this point?
dystar: did you see my earlier question?
Verla: I know that many magazines for kids don't pay nearly as well as some major magazines for adult readers
MRSfields: Plus, Jennifer was a writer first, in the trenches, so she knows the struggle to see our work as valuable and she wanted to support that
dystar: do you think it's easier to sell non-fiction or fiction?
Verla: BUT the validation you get with acceptance and seeing your words in print is SO worth the effort!
MRSfields: Oh, it's much easier to sell nonfiction...and easiest of all to sell interactive nonfiction which editors often don't get enough of
Verla: I think it's easier to sell non-fiction, dy... for the simple reason that they get so much less of it
dystar: interactive?
cass: I've heard non-fiction, dy, but I think it's hard to do well, so I wouldn't say it was easier
Verla: please explain "interactive nonfiction," jan?
dystar: I've been much more successful with non-fiction -- and it pays very well, too!
MRSfields: Nonfiction that encourages the reader to do something -- practice a new yoga move, plant a seed, make a craft, cook something...
dystar: ah
Verla: ah ha!
MRSfields: It's not easier to write, but assuming you can write it, nonfiction is easier to sell.
Verla: so non fiction that was like a "how to do this" article would be easiest to sell in your estimation, jan?
dystar: yes, "how-to" articles are very popular
dlanthomas: Do any of you send your mag articles to your crit group for comments?
MRSfields: Yes, but even in that, there is so much variation, so it helps to know the market REALLY well
dystar: sometimes, dlan
cass: yes, dlan
Anne_Marie: dlan, yes.
cass: not always, but often
Anne_Marie: There we go again, Cass.
cass: :P
NOTE: :P = a sideways smilie that is sticking its tongue out of the side of its mouth
Verla: I have, dlan, yes. And my crit group was very helpful. I didn't always take their advice, but even when I didn't, their comments helped me to see a "bigger picture" regarding my story/article for magazines
MRSfields: not usually because I usually write and send right away, but sometimes if I'm having a problem with it
katrapp: MRS: have you made mention of Wooden Horse Pub's website?
MRSfields: Nope, I haven't Kathy and I haven't visited it lately, I'm afraid
cass: often in our crit group, we'll ask for crits on mag stuff that's not part of our regular crit schedule
dystar: they're good at telling me if something doesn't quite make sense
Verla: I try to NEVER send an article as soon as I finish it. Inevitably, the next day I see things that I want to change before anyone sees it!
routebega: I'd like to write a how-to --does it need illustrations too?
katrapp: It is a paid subscription that has every magazine you could ever want along with guidelines and all sorts of stuff, there is also a free newslettter keeping you up-to-date with news -- very interesting
dystar: it depends on the magazine and the article
katrapp: I do not belong to the paid part
Verla: most magazine publishers (like book publishers) prefer to pick their own illustrators.
cass: interesting Kat
Anne_Marie: routebega, the only one I know of that practically requires photos are the Bluffton mags. The others take care of it . But if you have good photos, they're usually welcome.
cass: but mags like when you send photos with your story
katrapp: http://www.woodenhorsepub.com/
Verla: thanks for sharing the URL link, kat
katrapp: :)
NOTE: :) = a sideways smilie face
dlanthomas: Do some editors reject the first time they see your name just to see whether you try again? In other words, how persistent should we be?
katrapp: it goes well with the topic
MRSfields: I've sold illustrations to how-tos (for adult magazines) but for kid's magazines, they don't usually want them.
Verla: Oh, yikes! We only have SIX minutes left in this ProTalk Discussion!
Anne_Marie: Dlan, I don't think anyone would do that.
cass: I can't imagine they'd reject just to test you
Anne_Marie: If the ms is good, they'll want it.
NOTE: ms = manuscript
Anne_Marie: They don't have time to play games.
Verla: I can't imagine a publisher turning down a manuscript if they liked it well enough to want to publish it
dystar: but persistence is always good
MRSfields: If it's good, and if they don't have anything like it, and if they don't have limits on how long they can hold good work -- there are so many things at play in a magazine rejection
MRSfields: You might have actually made a very good market match, so there's nothing wrong with sending them the NEXT thing that you think will match well
Verla: I watch the rejections to see if the publisher has done anything to encourage me to submit more. (A single word written on a form rejection - like, "Sorry," - is a sign of encouragement.)
cass: I do get a sense from certain editors that they are rooting for you
cass: they might reject with "not this time, keep trying"
Verla: true, cass
dlanthomas: well. that's encouraging. That's the kind I get.
dystar: "please send us other things" is encouragement
Verla: they might also just reject it with form rejection because the story/article - no matter how well written - simply didn't fit into their upcoming publishing schedule.
cass: yay, dlan!
cass: or they have something similar already
Verla: right, cass
Anne_Marie: I like when mags have a checklist that tells you why.
Anne_Marie: Although I've only seen that once.
dystar: what bugs me, is when they encourage you to send in 'anything' and then say, 'sorry, not what we were looking for'
Verla: okay... we have THREE minutes left, folks...
cass: Verla, you're like Ty from Extreme home makeover -three minutes, people!!
Verla: any last minute burning questions you'd like answered? Or anyone have any last minute burning advice they would love to share?
Anne_Marie: I know it's frustrating trying to second guess an editors' needs, dy
Verla: heh heh heh, cass
Anne_Marie: I have advice!
Verla: SHARE, AM! SHARE!
cass: share it, AM!
Anne_Marie: Study the mags before you submit. Maybe someone said that already, but it really bears repeating.
dystar: queries are good -- check it out before you do the work
Anne_Marie: Sorry it wasn't more illuminating, but it's true.
Verla: yes, we did say it, and yes, it definitely needs to be repeated! Thanks, AM
cass: Mags are a great way to try writing someting new - n/f, or try interviews, etc.
NOTE: n/f = non fiction
Anne_Marie: That's good advice, Cass!
cass: thanks, AM, as was yours. :)
Verla: also, get ahold of a copy of the CWIM (Children's Writers & Illustrators Market guidebook) and READ IT. It will give you invaluable information on magazine markets. What they want (and don't want) to see, how to submit, how they pay, what rights they buy, etc.
cass: yes, yes!
Verla: and make sure your copy of the CWIM is the most current version! (2005 just came out)
MRSfields: And be sure to visit http://www.kidmagwriters.com regularly
WriterMel: Yes, DO!
WriterMel: It's an AWESOME online mag.
Verla: yes, visit Jan's magazine on line!
katrapp: MRS: is that the list address?
Anne_Marie: And actually, I love CWIM but the ICL Magazine Market is REALLY good, too.
cass: how are they different, AM?
MRSfields: Nope, kathy, that's my emagazine, Kid Magazine Writers
katrapp: there is a yahoo groups list that is magazine writers for kids, I have forgotten the name
MRSfields: ICL's also has parenting, which can be a nice side market
Anne_Marie: Cass, the ICL book covers the kids mag markets and also parenting and educational mags, so it's a bit broader. Plus it always says how many subs they get per month so you can figure out your chances.
Anne_Marie: :)
cass: is it also annual?
Verla: very true, AM, but everyone hasn't taken (or isn't currently taking) the ICL - Institute of Children's Literature - correspondence course. And the ICL magazine and book market guides are only available to former and current students.
Anne_Marie: Yes, it's annual.
Debby: How many subs do they typically get per month?
cass: really? only for ICL folks? bummer.
Anne_Marie: Debby, it depends on the mag. Highlights gets about 700, I believe.
MRSfields: Nope, they offer them from the website now, Verla, I'm sure of it
pickles: no, you can get them without being a student........I thought
Verla: they DO, Jan?
Debby: wow
Verla: Wow!
Verla: that's new!
pickles: I thought I got offers before I was a student
pickles: if you subscribe to the newsletter
pickles: they have your name and offer the book
Anne_Marie: And if you get this years, there's a really stellar example of a cover letter published in it to teach ya how to do it right. :)
MRSfields: I haven't actually checked but I am sure they do...my source of info was impecable
pickles: cool AM
Anne_Marie: Verla, you can take that out of the transcript because it was really obnoxious of me.
Verla: that's really amazing. They have changed then, since when I first started taking their courses. LOL... of course, I took their courses YEARS ago
Verla: did you write that article, AM?
Anne_Marie: I wrote the cover letter.
cass: Nah-ah, it was cute, AM
MRSfields: Yes, Verla, ICL even does self-study courses now
Verla: Well, then we will definitely keep that in, AM. You SHOULD puff a little with pride to have an article in that book.
pickles: oh wow I didn't know that
katrapp: The list's name is Just4kidsmagwriters
MRSfields: I know, because I wrote one :-)
Verla: LOL jan~
Verla: Okay, folks...
Verla: our time is UP for this discussion.
joanclr: What is the link for the ICL website?
Verla: any last questions?
Anne_Marie: http://www.institutechildrenslit.com
MRSfields: Right. The list is just4kidmagwriters -- it's with yahoogroups...I just linked to it on Kid Magazine Writers for a while
joanclr: cool, thanks
MRSfields: This was fun, Verla, thank you for reminding me to come.
Anne_Marie: this was a great workshop, everybody! Thanks, Verla!
katrapp: To join that list send a blank email to <just4kidsmagwriters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>
NOTE: (Don't use the <> brackets in the email address.)
joanclr: Yes, thanks all - I think I feel encouraged to step out on this a bit more
joanclr: :)
Verla: Thank you, EVERYONE who came and participated tonight - whether you were just listening, or contributing to the discussion
cass: thanks everyone!!
routebega: thanks for the info
Verla: I think this was a GREAT session!
Anne_Marie: If only someone had had the ONE piece of advice I really need.
WriterMel: goodnight, all!
cass: which was....?
Anne_Marie: How to break into the Carus group, darn it! I can't sell to them to save my life.
varia: Thank you all! That was very informative!
MRSfields: What kind of thing to you want to write for them?
cass: Break in ? Go in the middle of the night, wear gloves...
Debby: AM, how many articles have you sold?
Anne_Marie: Debby, I think four, plus the ICL work.
Anne_Marie: I've been concentrating on books for the last year and a half.
Debby: Good for you!
Verla: Thanks everyone!
Debby: What ICL work?
cass: i've sold two poems to Carus, AM, and I can't figure out why they liked them and ignore everything else
Anne_Marie: Jan, I mostly write fiction. I haven't actually tried that hard.
Anne_Marie: Debby, some articles for the website, plus the cover letter.
Debby: I'm trying to focus more on writing for mags, but adult mags.
Anne_Marie: I have never tried an adult mag.
MRSfields: I've done pretty well with the Cricket magazines, AM, if you ever want me to look at something and tell you how to tinker it to fit them better, let me know. I've sold them fiction, poetry and nonfiction
katrapp: hey!! Great cass
Debby: some of the adult mags pay really well
Anne_Marie: Thanks, Jan--that would be great!
Anne_Marie: One time I got rejected on something for BABYBUG and they published something almost exactly like it three months later. BAD TIMING!
Anne_Marie: And I do mean almost exactly.
MRSfields: They are very voice oriented, they take the "literary" thing pretty seriously.
tgseale: same here, AM
cass: thanks, kat, but it's pretty pathetic if you compare the ration of what I've sent to what I've sold...wait, are we still transcripted??
tgseale: that's happened to me a couple of times with babybug
Anne_Marie: I can do literary, Jan. :)
MRSfields: They ran my Babybug poem in Ladybug and my Spider article in Cricket...but they ran them :-)
cass: really, Jan?
Verla: I'll cut this part out, cass. LOL
NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud... and it was decided to NOT cut this part out because it might help others to know that even those who are getting published still get lots of rejections....
Anne_Marie: Della sent them something twice -- they rejected it once, so she changed the fruit and they bought it the second time around.
Verla: welcome to everyone who came in tonight for the first time
Debby: too funny!
cass: lol, AM
Verla: and welcome to everyone else, too. <grin>
Anne_Marie: And hers was really similar to one of mine that they rejected.
Verla: LOL am
Anne_Marie: So much is timing!
MRSfields: Well, I have to run...it's bedtime in Janland.
Verla: I have to go fix dinner
Verla: hugs to all
katrapp: night jan
cass: getting past the first reader takes great writing and luck, at Carus
Verla: THANKS, all!
katrapp: hugs verla
cass: night Jan
Log file closed at: 12/7/04 7:12:36 PM


Verla Kay
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