ProTalk Discussion: Illustrating for Profit - 9/7/04


Log file opened at: 9/7/04 5:51:10 PM
*** Topic for #kidlit: Illustrating for Profit ProTalk Discussion here TONIGHT! (Welcome!)
*** Topic for #kidlit set by Verla on Tuesday, September 7, 2004 5:18:18 PM
Jaina: Hi, gang!
Verla: wow... the illustrators are arriving
Jaina: Hi, Agy!
Andrea: Hi, J
Andrea: Sorry, I'm not a illustrator:( Can I still hang out?
els: yes, Andrea. :)
Jaina: Hey, Andrea. I'm not either, but I'm here to be bothersome.
agy: kia, I blew off my inface crit group to be here and I LOVE those people!
agy: Hey Douglas! Do you have a website?
Douglas_C: I do, agy. Let's see. Which one do I want to show you? lol
Verla: (by the way, for anyone who's new to chats, lol is short for "laughing out loud.")
Verla: four minutes to Show Time, Folks!
Jaina: Wow, pretty papers!
Douglas_C: Thanks, Jaina
Verla: Douglas is GREAT, jaina
Verla: I'm very impressed with his work
Verla: (*which we will discuss in THREE more minutes! LOL)
Jaina: And what a cool idea, Douglas. So do you hang out with all the scrapbookies (what do they call themselves?) and get all their comments on wish lists for papers?
Douglas_C blushes and kicks the rug
Verla: scrappers, jaina
Verla: we call ourselves Scrappers
Jaina: scrappers!
Douglas_C: No time for that, jaina. My art director, Sarah Milne, gives me plenty to do.
agy: beautiful papers Douglas!
Douglas_C: thx
Jaina: Wow, Douglas. An art director. I humbly bow to you, Mr. Artist!
agy: I have a few friends who scrap
Jaina: I'm just an artist wannabe.
Douglas_C: Me too, but don't tell anybody! LOL
Verla: so hurry and share what you have to share about illustrating for profit, els. I'll copy and paste it into the workshop later if you have to leave (because of the hurricane) and can't repeat it
els: oh, wow- really put me on the spot, lol
Jaina: Yeah, Els. Share all your wisdom right now.
agy: hehehe
Jaina: And it better be good.
els: ok... and there you have it. all my wisdom
Verla: right ALL your wisdom, els. And RIGHT NOW
agy: spill
els: done
Douglas_C looks upon the screen with anticipation
Verla hands out big spoons so we can dig it outta her head if she doesn't start sharing. <mwahahahahahahahahahaha!>
els: wasn't that great? call me sage
agy: sage, rosemary and thyme
Verla: now that song will be stuck in my head the rest of the night, agy. LOL
agy: sorry
agy: oopsie
*** CrummyButtons has joined channel #Kidlit
els: Hey Crummy
agy: Crummybuttons
Jaina: Hey, Crummy
CrummyButt: Hey! I'm tardy. . .
Jaina: Crummy's made money illustrating. I know she has.
Jaina: Let's throw stuff at her.
CrummyButt: Thanks!
CrummyButt: OW!
Verla: ProTalk Discussion #3 - Illustrating for Profit is now IN PROGRESS!
CrummyButt: Sssshhh. . . .
*** Verla has set the topic on channel #kidlit to Illustrating for Profit ProTalk Discussion IN PROGRESS! (Welcome!)
agy: hooray
els: so how are we going to kick this sucker off?
els: :)
Verla: Okay... first off, who is an illustrator and what do you love to do - and what do you "really" do ( for profit)
Verla: I think that will work as a kick-off, els

els: I am. I love fantasy art, and celtic art
agy: I love doing characters and animals, and this is it
agy: That too els!
agy: same here, as well as my calligraphy and craft classes

els: what I've made money at is whimsical art, and such
els: And I've made money at selling rubber stamp designs.

els: and I teach art to homeschool kids (not my own...)
Verla: I need stamp designs for each of my books, els
Douglas_C thinks stamps are wickedly expensive
els: that would be neat, Verla! stamp designs for you books

agy: I've made a little money at both, cartoon and more realistic. I like doing involved stuff with a bit of humor thrown in
CrummyButt: What I do is more akin to cartoons than illustrations
CrummyButt: i've done logos for small indie record companies

CrummyButt: i've also done some ads for a weight loss clinic
CrummyButt: all for the same guy
agy: cool beans Crummy
CrummyButt: and i did a Princeton Review book called The Illustrated Wordsmart

Douglas_C: I'm an illustrator...
Douglas_C: I love fantasy as well, and used to do a lot of fan art, which is how I landed my current gig.
Douglas_C: Until this gig that's all I ever did, too: logos - but locally
Douglas_C: But I paint rocks instead for a living. lol
els: paint rocks?
Douglas_C: and plaids... (>_<)
Douglas_C: lol
els: ahhh
els: heh
CrummyButt: cool
Verla: but you don't paint "real rocks," Douglas... you paint pages of rocks, right?
Douglas_C: Yes, Verla, I jest
Douglas_C: I am a scrapbook paper designer by trade now.
Douglas_C: My dream is to leverage my success in scrapbooking into a career illustrating children's books.
islandgirl: I'm not an illustrator...yet, but I play one in my head!
els: hehe, island
agy: LOL island girl
Verla: that's a good start, islandgirl
islandgirl: I have made some money doing murals, illustrations for local stuff
agy: agy thinks rs designers are drastically underpaid ;^D
Verla: wow... lots of different kinds of ways to make money here!
Verla: this is great!
agy: ooh Crummy that sounds intriguing
CrummyButt: hubby wrote the text -- it's an SAT-prep vocab book
agy: Ahhhh, it has a great title, mystique!
Jaina: So what sort of art education has everyone had (just curious)... anybody self-taught?
agy: kinda worked for Mary Engelbreit Douglas
agy: not papers but her other designs. She started out wanting to illustrate, ended up doing it after all.
agy: Always drew, attended Portland School of Art
agy: Studied calligraphy with some truly great people
Douglas_C: I studied at Mass. College of Art, and studied design at Brigham Young University, as well as fine arts.
CrummyButt: i taught myself to draw when I was working on that book. it's a method I wouldn't recommend.
Verla: I am totally in awe of illustrators. I "can" draw a little, but to be able to draw characters, and scenes, and animals, and have them look like the same character in page after page of a book - that's totally beyond my capabilities!
islandgirl: some design courses in the couple of years of college I did
CrummyButt: beyond mine, too
caroline: do you find having a website helps?
agy: a must
Douglas_C: Since I haven't only started using a web page as an illustrator this summer, I can't comment on that. I used to be a web page designer (for nine years) before giving it up to pursue illustration.
caroline: how do you divide up your site.. do you include all genres or have a site just for kids stuff

agy: Kids stuff should stay with kids stuff. You don't want an accidental wanderer to be offended by say a nekkid satyr
goblin2: what is the best way to assure continuity when illustrating for books?
agy: Goblin, Kevin Hawkes does all of the illos at once
agy: I use a light table
Jaina: Good question, Goblin! I like how animators sometimes use 3-D figures...
agy: want to try Kevin's method when I have the space
Jaina: of the characters, I mean.
Jaina: To sketch from.
agy: Brian Lies gave me great advice that I pass on every chance I get. Change your pov. Drop it down
agy: most people draw at eye level, except they are adults
agy: It was THE major flaw with my drawings
caroline: good point agy
Douglas_C: excellent point.
Jaina: Interesting!
agy: Even if you don't do it in all of your drawings, you should try it for a while, it'll definitely change the way you look at things

agy: And there are a few others, but I'm away from my library, so I can't share them right now

Verla: Illustrators, from what I understand, get a larger advance (as a rule) than authors (of the same experience/publishing level)
CrummyButt: i got paid in thirds
Verla: have any of you used the book, Writing with Pictures by Uri Shulevitz?
goblin2: I've read it
Douglas_C: I haven't, Verla
agy: I have it, but don't use it
Verla: I understand from illustrators I've talked to that that book is absolutely invaluable to someone who wants to learn to illustrate children's books
Verla: I've got it... (*in storage, of course. Sigh)
Douglas_C: I'll have to hunt it down. Always looking for new insights.
agy: It's a good one
Jaina: Did you guys catch that discussion on the SCBWI board about the mannequin?
Verla: I missed that, jaina
caroline: no...
goblin2: what did it say Jaina?
Douglas_C: no..
CrummyButt: nuh-uh
Jaina: Some folks are using this new 18 inch Spiderman action figure as a drawing mannekin
Verla: (by the way, goblin, if you click on the B button on your chat screen, it should remove the Bold from your type)
Jaina: instead of those wooden ones
agy: One is two perspectives with Berthe Amoss
caroline: why?
Jaina: It has 67 separate joints
Jaina: Sooooo poseable.
agy: wow, I've never used a mannequin
Jaina: You can leave off some of the muscles. ; )
agy: Kids and mirrors are better
caroline: gotta love spiderman
agy: LOL, Jaina
goblin2: oops, is that better?
CrummyButt: yes
Verla: lol crummy
goblin2: sorry bout that
CrummyButt: :)
Verla: not a problem, goblin.. Happens a lot
Jaina: I don't have a mannequin, but I think I need one. Would like to find one with child proportions, though. Not the adult male one.
Douglas_C: That's funny! I really detest those wooden mannequins. I use a Disney Mulan doll, very posable...
agy: I would suggest if you're having problems with an anatomy part that you draw it for two- three weeks straight. Often it's an avoidance thing, and a lack of understanding of the structure
Verla: yes, kids and adults are definitely proportioned differently
goblin2: That's what I was thinking Jaina - need something that looks more like a kid.
Jaina: Neat, Doug! This was the same idea. Every little bit of him is jointed. He costs about $20
Douglas_C: I also have a dozen or so japanese anime models for reference.
agy: Jaina, I go to the park and do gesture drawings
Douglas_C: I'm gonna buy him tonight! lol
agy: Also family pictures
Douglas_C: Hello, Amishka!
caroline: hi ami
Jaina: You gesture at people and then draw their reaction?
agy: Hey Ami!
agy: LOL
CrummyButt: the term "gesture drawing" always makes me giggle
Verla: lol...
Douglas_C: Jaina: WHAT?!
agy: You betcha, you should see some of 'em
Douglas_C: lol
goblin2: lol
Jaina: What is a gesture drawing, please?
Jaina: Drawings of gestures, I take it?
agy: a very quick line, "essence" drawing
Jaina: Oh, okay
Douglas_C: Yes, often very quickly rendered to capture the essence, as agy says
agy: you have to work fast, so it short circuits some of that critical thinking
caroline: so does using the wrong hand
agy: Something else I hear time and again from every where, more child friendly stuff
Douglas_C: I can't get away from the kids to study models, so I either use them or gesture sketch from magazine models.
Verla: okay... we had quite a few different ways of making money with your drawing talked about tonight so far... I'd like to explore the different ways one by one.
agy: People should put on their site and portfolios what they WANT to draw, but also kids, animals, actual actions
Jaina: I did some drawings I loved once, at a lecture. I can't sit still and listen, so I like to draw. I drew it all in the mostly-dark and it came out really cool.
Jaina: I guess it's the same idea.
Verla: I'm going to go in alphabetical order... with latecomers at the end
Jaina: Douglas, I like kids clothing catalogs
islandgirl: I have been doing gesture sketches of the kids at church, my nephews --trying to get very comfortable drawing kids
Jaina: Like Hanna Anderson.
Verla: Agy, I know you are an illustrator, what can you tell us about how you turned your love of art into money?
Jaina: Good action in them.
agy: You have to have a cohesive portfolio, and web site
Douglas_C: What's your site, agy?
agy: if you get it to the people that are interested, then it ups your chances of getting work
agy: I put my crit group site, because there's so much good info.
agy: if you click on my name, it will give you my page as well as website
Verla: did you advertise yourself (offer yourself out for hire) Agy? And if so, what did you say?
agy: but I do lettering, rubberstamp design,
agy: I'll be sending out my second (really my first as I waited too long between mailings- 2-3 months) next month
agy: postcards with my info on the front. I hand out business cards at conferences
Verla: who's the mailing going to?
agy: and I talk about art every chance I get
Verla: (that's one of the MAIN keys about promoting yourself... you have to LET PEOPLE KNOW YOU ARE THERE! And what you do.)
agy: I've selected those I want to work with and may get work from Carus, Highlights and select book publishers. I won't do a lot because I write as well and want to
Verla: I mean... where did you get your mailing list for the postcards, agy?
agy: promote my own projects
Verla: off the internet? Personal contacts? What?
agy: Oh my favorite, The Children's Writers and Illustrators' Markets
Verla: ah ha!
Verla: CWIM!
agy: But also some personal contacts a friend will tell me when there are changes in staff
agy: It's a must have for anyone, beginning and not so beginning
Verla: sounds great, agy... okay... who's the next illustrator to share? Ami? Andrea? Caroline?
agy: Thanks Verla!
Verla: thank YOU, agy!
Douglas_C: great job, agy
Verla: Ami, you don't illustrate, right?
Verla: Andrea, do you?
agy: thank you Douglas!
Verla: Caroline?
agy: If you don't have information, do you have questions?
Verla: CrummyButtons?
CrummyButt: i'm a terrible example, because i've never sought out any illustration work on purpose. People I know just call me when they need some work done.
Douglas_C: Lucky you, Crummy!
Andrea: Sorry, I don't illustrate:)
caroline: i'm not an "illustrator"... actually it took me a long time to call myself a "writer" :)
Verla: so you get most of your work from word of mouth, from people who "know you illustrate and want your work?"
caroline: but my dad is ... and I've been trying to break in as a team for years with no luck
Douglas_C: Do you have your work up on the web, caroline?
*** laserbraids has joined channel #Kidlit
CrummyButt: people who know i'll work cheap because I don't consider myself an illustrator
Verla: it's a lot harder to get accepted as a "team" than as an individual, caroline
agy: HEY Laserbraids!
Jaina: <Hey, LB!>
Douglas_C: hahaha
Verla: yay.. laser is here!
laserbraid: Hi, it only took me half an hour to get in here, grr
Verla: sorry, laser. Glad you made it though
laserbraid: glad to be here, anyway
caroline: yeah, Verla, that's what I've been told. So we gave up trying together for a while
Verla: we're just sharing how each illustrator gets their work
Verlyra: hi
caroline: no Doug, I have no site as of yet
Verla: that's smart, caroline. Each of you submit separately, that's the key
Douglas_C: lol
caroline: do you illustrators submit complete mss including illos, or just focus on one arena at a time?
Verla: what would you suggest to people who want to get word of mouth work, Caroline? Anything special they can do (other than hog-tying people and forcing them to listen as you tell them about your illustrator dreams?)
Douglas_C: I'm going to focus on one at a time, caroline.
Verla: think that's smart, douglas
caroline: is one "easier" to break in with or are both as competative?
laserbraid: I go back and forth between working on a dummy/ms package, and just sending out samples
Verla: Yay, holli arrived!
agy: hey Holli! Your writing skills have to be equally strong as your illustrating skills.
Holli: Yah! I got on.
laserbraid: although I have heard of people getting illustration work when their ms was turned down, on the strength of the accompanying samples
agy: I do both as well. I market my books as well. I also belong to a WRITER'S crit group for that
laserbraid: it hasn't happened to me though..
caroline: isn't it expensive to keep sending out the illos sample packages?
laserbraid: YES
agy: Yeppers
Verla: from what I've heard, caroline, they're both very competitive. But with writers, you send a manuscript, and if they don't want it, they reject it. End of your contact with that house. As an illustrator, you can send them art samples and if they like them, they will put them in their file and hold them, sometimes for years. When they are looking for the perfect illustrator for a book, they browse through their files to find someone whose work they think will be perfect
agy: It's one of the reasons you target and make your work the strongest you can. Otherwise you're wasting the editors time and your own resources
Douglas_C: I'm going to try to leverage my success with scrapbook papers into children's illust. and then worry about submitting mss. (If I ever find the time! I'm a fulltime dad, too!!)
Verla: so your work might stay on file for years someplace
laserbraid: that is true, Verla
laserbraid: although you need to keep sending samples to remind them you're alive
Verla: yes, laser. That was going to be my next comment. LOL
agy: 2-4 months
caroline: so do you take the shotgun approach and send a cross section of various styles or try and specialize?
Verla: I've been told sending them another new sample every 3- 4 months or so is good
agy: and it can still take years, even if they think your work is fabulous
Verla: right, agy
Jaina: This summer I got Patti Gauch to look at Tom and my dummy. I thought she'd tell me to never, ever sub a collaboration, but she was actually very positive!
agy: no caroline. They are looking for an identifiable, consistent style
laserbraid: I try to send work that all looks like it's by me
Verla: but... once you have done a book with a publisher and they love your work... then you have a better chance of selling them a manuscript/art package with you doing both art AND writing
agy: also publishing houses are very different, it's time consuming and expensive to sen something they can't use
Verla: RARELY that happens, jaina.
Jaina: Rarely what happens?
Verla: It's very exciting when it does!
goblin2: Do you send samples out done in the same style and with the same medium?
Jaina: That someone is positive to Jaina?
laserbraid: yes, pretty much - same style, same medium
Verla: an art/writer collaboration that works, jaina
laserbraid: once you're in, and published, maybe you can branch out a little
caroline: dad works for animation studios so his shtick is that he has a chameleon approach.. he can do anything
agy: Same STYLE. I work two styles, but it may not be appropriate to the house.
Jaina: Well, I guess I'm one in a million. :P
caroline: but i'm thinking he may need "his style"
agy: and i don't worry about the media. Only that it's consistent and it looks like my stuff
goblin2: May I say thanks agy for the link to your site. if anyone else has one and would care to post it, that would be great.
Verla: Okay... douglas, you have done a totally different kind of art to make money. Would you please tell us a little about what you do?
Jaina: Or maybe it's all Tom. ; ) Patti did say to put his samples ON TOP! :D
agy: But I also tend to work in only a few media- colored pencil, washes, and acrylics
Douglas_C: Sure! :)
laserbraid:, as requested
Douglas_C: OK, I'm Douglas Cootey, and I used to be a web page designer.
Douglas_C: But I found it very very boring.
Douglas_C: So I started to freshen my portfolio when I was contacted by an old college chum about working for his wife.
*** Anne_Marie has joined channel #Kidlit
caroline: hey AM
agy: hey AM
Jaina: Anne Marie!!
Anne_Marie: hey all
goblin2: thanks laserbraids
Douglas_C: They originally hired me to draw faeries! But they didn't sell well. So now I'm painting pictures of rocks and grass and plaid and.... But I'm excited to be working in this field.
islandgirl: your papers look great
Verla: these are background papers for scrapbooks, right, douglas?
Douglas_C: My website is (thx islandgirl)
laserbraid: interesting!
agy: Your papers are beautiful Douglas, how do you see them working into children's illustration, do you have a plan of attack?
Douglas_C: Yes, Verla. At first, it's not so exciting.
Douglas_C: Plaid. ugh.
Verla: (so many different ways to make money with art!)
Verla: LOL Douglas!
Douglas_C: But, it's my best seller! lol so maybe I've grown up and come down from the ivy tower.
agy: lol
laserbraid: I like your web site, Douglas
Verla: but while you are making money doing scrapbook pages, you are actively pursuing your dream of doing art for children's picture books, right, Douglas?
Douglas_C: My goal this year is to use this current success (royalty checks have started to roll in, so my wife and I are thrilled) to launch a new career as a children's book illustrator.
Douglas_C: lol. bingo
Douglas_C: It's hard. I'm a fulltime Dad, and the scrapbook deadlines are every few months.
laserbraid: illustration is all about deadlines. All kinds of illustration
agy: yes
Douglas_C: I just sent off 14 new designs. I'm hoping 13 are approved so I have a total of 30 out in the wild (check out
Verla: actually writing is also about deadlines, laser. I think it's all part of the "life" of a creative person
Douglas_C: Exactly! And you can't hold up production on them or they get grumpy.
Douglas_C: Even if they ARE friends.
agy: even if it's not from an editor, you need to self impose them for new portfolio pieces and self promotion
Holli: Sorry if I missed this, but Douglas, are you doing commissioned work for the scrapbook paper or selling/licensing your desins to them?
agy: lol douglas
Douglas_C: Exactly, agy
Douglas_C: I am fortunate to get this lucky break, but if my papers didn't sell, they wouldn't use me no matter how well they knew me.
agy: it is hard finding that balance. My five year old went to school today for the second time, and it's AMAZING what I've got done those two days
Douglas_C: The faerie paper didn't sell well, or AS WELL as the top sellers. So I paint rocks. :)
CrummyButt: for some reason, it's easier for me to make writing deadlines than it was for me to make illustration deadlines
laserbraid: non-fiction~~
agy: Exactly. And it works in the same way in all levels of business. People mentor, but you MUST deliver
Verla: okay.. moving on a little...we have a lot of people yet to hear from!
Douglas_C: I've still got a 3 year old at home. She's in preschool now and I'll have two 1 and a half hour periods a week now to myself. I'm fairly excited.
Verla: Goblin, do you have anything to share?
Douglas_C: I had one more thing to share, Verla
Verla: Oh, sorry, douglas!
Verla: please continue!
Douglas_C: lol, don't worry.
Verla slaps duct tape over her mouth and fingers until Douglas finishes
Douglas_C: I just wanted to say that even though my papers are in five continents and in over 300 stores, it still isn't enough. I can't sit on my duff, I've got to push myself to do more.
Douglas_C: As agy says, we need to self impose deadlines.
Douglas_C: I don't really make a lot of money, and as in everything, you're only as good as how well your product sells. I have to keep producing. But I am happier than I've ever been in my life. Funny, ne?
Douglas_C takes Verla's tape and applies it to himself..
islandgirl: I am working on a couple of hidden pictures which I hope to submit to Highlights--did any of you start in mags first?
agy: lol
Verla: not really, Douglas. Money is very nice to have and it certainly can make life easier, but it's NOT the end-all of everything
Verla: Okay... goblin?
Verla: I know Holli has some wonderful stuff to share
Verla: Holli?
Douglas_C: Looks like I killed the audience... lol
Holli: Yes, In order to get my illustration career going I've committed to writing articles for a creative site.
Verla: Can you tell us a little about your promotion efforts, Holli?
agy: good for you Holli!
Verla: Oh... are. <reapplying duct tape>
Douglas_C: lol
Verla: that seems like such an unusual way to promote illustrating.. by writing!
Douglas_C screamed as duct tape was pulled off
agy: tell us more, Holli!
Douglas_C: Holli, can you explain a little?
Holli: I've labeled it a self promotion journal and you guys can check out the first 3 entries here:
Holli: Everything is going so fast for me I can't keep up on the chat. Sorry I'm a little slow.
Verla: that's okay, Holli. We're interested in what you are sharing
Verla: anything you'd like to share, goblin?
goblin2: sorry I was called away for a second. I'm a beginner though and here to learn. :)
goblin2: Just thanks for the chat Verla.. I don't have any experiences to relate yet lol
Verla: okay, goblin
Douglas_C hands Verla some more duct tape
Holli: lol, Douglas!
Holli: As you may read, I recently had my 1st child in April and that totally set me off to get with it for my illustration career. I have learned so much these past few months about promotion it's unreal.
Verla: so if they go to your website to the URL you shared, Holli, they can find out about your promotion efforts?
Holli: My site can bee seen at and the promotional articles can be seen at --- thanks for letting me share this Verla!
Verla: we appreciate you sharing it with us, Holli
Douglas_C: (great site, Holli! Full of character AND professional to boot!)
laserbraid: thanks, Holli, I look forward to reading the articles
agy: that's great Holli, and CONGRATS onthe new little reader!
laserbraid: I've sent samples to magazines, but so far I haven't gotten any jobs
laserbraid: I seem to be skipping the magazine step and moving into books!!
CrummyButt: good for you, LB!
agy: wooohoooo LB!
agy: I did some articles and illustrations for a few (Wee Ones, as well as KidsCornerNews) but still trying to break into the hidden pics. No luck-- YET
agy: But it did give me publishing credits
agy: the truth be told, there's not a lot of money TO make in the beginning
agy: but there are many ways and directions to supplement and follow your muse, something Kia has skillfully pointed out
agy: island girl you asked about mags.
islandgirl: yes... did any of you start there and move on to picture books
Douglas_C: I will, islandgirl! I just don't know when! :(
Verla: and while we have you "on the floor" Islandgirl, do you have any info to share?
islandgirl: Well, the hidden pics I looked at in the Highlights book were great
islandgirl: Sorry I'm too new to help out
Verla: LOL Islandgirl! jaina... how about your illustration efforts?
Jaina: My sharing--I'm on the board of my local arts council. We're a very poor community, but we still have grant $ for local artists to use for supplies or anything else they wish. And every year it goes unclaimed!!
Verla: that's okay, islandgirl...we have all levels of people here, including some of us who don't draw well enough to put eyebrows on without a ruler...
goblin2: lol
WriterMel: or even WITH a ruler
WriterMel: ,--- my problem
^Miriam: hey! I resemble that remark verla
islandgirl: lol well, for sure don't use a ruler for eyebrows!
Jaina: Our state's Arts Council also gives grants yearly. I'm applying this year! Lots of $ out there and not many people know about it. It could be YOU winning that grant.
Verla faints
agy: lets talk later Jaina!
laserbraid: I have also heard this about my town arts council
goblin2: Where do you live Jaina?
laserbraid: of course, the grants are usually in the $500 range
agy: SCBWI has grants as well
Jaina: Be sure to check with your state's arts council and see if they have something you can apply for. Check with your local county too (google it).
laserbraid: and you have to benefit the town in some way with your project, like have a show in the town
Verla: Hey, $500 would buy a lot of paints/colored pencils, paper, etc
Douglas_C: Didn't I hear about this on TV from that guy with the wacky glasses and ?'s all over his suitjacket?
Jaina: Usually you have to be a resident.
laserbraid: yes
Verla: and erasers. You could get a lot of erasers for $500
laserbraid: but putting on a show costs more than $500!!!
Jaina: Our local arts council's grants are only in the hundreds, but the state grant is $8,000
Amishka: Jaina, may not tell you which state she lives in. She doesn't want too much competition for the grant
agy: Ahhh, I would fit in with my pb project, too cool!
CrummyButt: mostly, i'd need erasers
agy: LOL
Douglas_C: Pen nibs for me.
Verla: heh heh heh
laserbraid: yes, Agy, you should apply for your Annie story, it's perfect
Jaina: That's okay, you have to be a resident of the state. If you qualify, go ahead an apply!
laserbraid: they are obligated by law to distribute the funds and a lot of people don't apply
Jaina: For the local one, you must be a resident of my county.
islandgirl: never would have thought of a grant....unclaimed money? what's that? lol
Amishka: but, goblin2 most states have grants as well as provinces and the Canadian government
Verla: that's a great thing to share, jaina... thank you. How do you find out where these art councils ARE, jaina?
goblin2: how do you find out if your state has art grants?
laserbraid: call your town hall
Verla: (heh heh... we had the same question, goblin)
Jaina: Verla, use Google and put in your county and "arts council"
WriterMel: Wow - wonder if my county has them?
laserbraid: or the state house
Jaina: See what comes up.
Douglas_C: Good question, Verla. I was about to ask that as well.
Verla: awesome!
Jaina: Or your state and "arts council"
Douglas_C: where?
Verla: I'd have to google...
agy: I'm so stoked Jaina you don't know!
Jaina: Our state also gives scholarships to a writer's retreat in Vermont. Who knew? If I could get away from my family for the month that's required, I'd totally apply.
Verla: I think I heard something about these councils having grants for writers, too... (something else to think about, folks)
agy: I've got the perfect project, and this would be a great boost
laserbraid: excellent, Agy - this should work for you!
Jaina: Yes, I'm applying for the Writers grant, Verla.
laserbraid: absolutely, all arts - music, writing, etc.
Verla: this is terrific
Jaina: I don't really illustrate.
agy: Jaina, don't be modest, you have great drawing abilities
agy: maybe a few classes?
Verla: Okay... laserbraids... what about you? Can you share some things with us? (Assuming Jaina's done?)
Jaina: I love to draw! I'd love to take some classes.
Jaina: I'm done.
laserbraid: sure
agy: lol
laserbraid: First, I sent out ms/dummy packages. No dice
laserbraid: So then I sent out samples to targeted people. interest, no dice
laserbraid: So then I did another dummy. know what
laserbraid: THEN I did a web site
laserbraid: THEN I sent out postcards, and got some responses
laserbraid: Postcards are good.
CrummyButt: then you sent out dice?
laserbraid: You have to have a good web site to back them up
agy: lol
Douglas_C: lol
Douglas_C: what's the url laserb?
laserbraid: THEN I got recommended by a friend and the editors looked at my web site, and DICE
*** kimmar has joined channel #Kidlit
laserbraid: Dice happened
Amishka: hi kimmar
agy: kimmar!!!
Verla: (no, crummy. She said NO dice...)
kimmar: hi all!
laserbraid: web site:
laserbraid: I'm working on a new web site though, check back in two weeks
Verla: that's great, laser. Thanks
agy: LB, do glow abit, tell them about your credit!
laserbraid: anyway, for me, the best results have been postcards+web site+connections
kimmar: sarah {{{}}}!!!
Verla: is there any illustrator here who hasn't shared his/her website URL with us yet? If so, please share it NOW
laserbraid: look about halfway down, with Tiger Woods.
agy: tricky!
laserbraid: Hi Kim!!!!
Douglas_C: Thx. laserbraids. My next big project is to create a website for my children's book illustrations. good info to keep in mind.
laserbraid: Yes, you MUST have one. And you MUST keep putting new images on it! Lots of work
Douglas_C: oy.
laserbraid: yep
Verla: (like a writer's site, laser. Keeping it CURRENT with new info all the time is the key. That keeps people coming back again and again.)
laserbraid: and doing new cards all the time is lots of work and $$$
agy: Douglas, think mother of invention. I do CP because I became a mom at 42 and wanted to be able to work
Douglas_C: CP? sorry.
*** Torty has joined channel #kidlit
laserbraid: colored pencils
Douglas_C blushes with ignorance.
agy: perhaps streamlining your style to fit into your NEW lifestyle would do good things. Colored pencils
kimmar: hi torty
Douglas_C: lol, I love CP.
Torty: hey there all
agy: sorry, I shouldn't be taking shortcuts!
agy: Hey torty
Douglas_C: hey, torty
Verla: hi torty... we're discussing Illustrating for Profit right now...
Torty: cool
agy: they don't dry out, are inexpensive, can be picked up or put down quickly
laserbraid: anyway, my other thing is that I attracted an agent with my illustrating work, and she stayed to read my writing
laserbraid: and it all worked out in the end, thanks to the pictures
Verla: okay.. is there anyone here who has something they would like to add to this discussion about Illustrating for Profit? Or... someone who has a burning question they'd like to have an answer to?
agy: note to group, Laserbraids is a wonderful writer
laserbraid: aw shucks
Douglas_C: bravo, lb!
kimmar: that she is agy
*** Amishka has left channel #kidlit
laserbraid: *blushes
agy: hehehe, a nice rose madder
Douglas_C: lol
Verla: only one big problem with colored pencil, for me, agy. They break off and my pencil sharpener eats them instead of sharpening them. (Maybe I should replace the one I got with Green Stamps back in 1965?)
laserbraid: You must never, ever drop them
agy: Kia, if they drop on the floor the lead breaks inside them.
laserbraid: they break inside when they hit the floor :(
Jaina: What's up with yellapalooza? Is the site down?
laserbraid: what???
Douglas_C: Oh, verla, you need to replace those sharpeners once every year or two. lol
agy: Also it depends on the make, prisma is softer than derwent
agy: WHat?
Jaina cuts and pastes LB's chat because she can't see that color on the screen!
Verla: lol... I'm still using the one we got when we were first married, Douglas
laserbraid: it looks like it's up for me...
agy: LOL
*** Deetie has left channel #kidlit
agy: I sent someone earlier and they saw it. Hmmm
laserbraid: oh, that site, for people who haven't heard of it (is there anyone???) is
Douglas_C: lol, well, this has been fun Verla. I'm afraid I need to get going. I have to work up a rough for a client.
Verla: would you please share the yellowpalooza site URL with everyone again? that's the BEST place I know of for illustrators
Verla: Thanks SO much for coming and sharing Douglas
laserbraid: gosh, Verla, what a nice thing to say
Verla: the transcript of this session will be on my website
CrummyButt: bye, douglas@
kimmar: lol doug! I thought you said "I have to rough up a client!"
agy: Thank YOU Verla!
Verla: later tonight on the Transcripts page
goblin2: lol kimmar
Douglas_C: My pleasure. And there I was all nervous in the beginning. :)
laserbraid: heh heh, we illustrators are tough
agy: LOL
laserbraid: weird, Jaina
Douglas_C: hahaha!
Verla: Okay... any last comments before we close this discussion, folks?
islandgirl: Thanks!
goblin2: thanks Verla and everyone. Hope this is the first of many chats like this!
Verla: I want to say a special THANK YOU to everyone who participated... with comments, information, and questions
kimmar: sorry I was so late :(, BUT i WAS WRITING
Verla: yes, this is number 3 in a series of 33 of these discussions, Goblin
kimmar: oops about those caps
WriterMel: YAY, kimmar!
Verla: we are holding them on the first and third tuesdays of every month
islandgirl: are the other chats up on your site?
goblin2: oh cool thanks Verla
laserbraid: wonderful, Verla
Verla: the first two discussion transcripts are on the Transcripts page (naturally!) of my website
islandgirl: Thanks, I'll look them up.
Verla: I have the subjects set up so that we will flow naturally from beginning issues (like Finding Time to Write or Illustrate) all the way to Working with Editors and Promoting your Books
Verla: And this officially closes the ProTalk Discussion for tonight folks. NIGHT!
Log file closed at: 9/7/04 7:12:35 PM

Verla Kay
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