ProTalk Discussion: Making Time to Write - 8/3/04

Enjoy!

*** Verla has set the topic on channel #kidlit to ProTalk Discussion ...Making Time to Write.. IN PROGRESS
Verla: Okay... I will start tonight's discussion by a confession
Verla: I am not writing!
els: tsk tsk tsk
Verla: Ever since we moved, I haven't been writing
CrummyButt: understandable
dystar: ah-ha, ulterior motive
Verla: and I have TWO books sold to Putnam that are way way way way way overdue
Verla: so while I know WHAT I'm supposed to be doing, I'm not DOING it.
Verla: Okay... someone else's turn now...
dystar: to confess?
Verla: what are YOU folks doing "right" or "wrong" when it comes to finding time to write?
CrummyButt: i've procrastinated for almost a year
Verla: crummy
Verla: crummy's in my court!
els: I haven't been writing much either. we just moved, too, and it is summer. Garden time.
els: procrastination time
CrummyButt: i have a hard time switching gears from textbooks to fun stuff
dystar: I have no choice, I have to write: deadlines
joanclr: Sometimes I find I have so many ideas in my head, I keep bouncing around from one to the other, and never finishing anythign properly
Verla: (by the way, els - who is our local chat room dungeon mistress - will be torturing those of us later tonight who don't get "started writing" by the end of tonight's session.
joanclr: :)
els: (mwahahahahahaha)
CrummyButt: i have to say that i always meet my deadlines for paying work. maybe that's my problem with fun stuff. no pay.
Verla: or, maybe you just need deadlines for it, crummy
Verla: are you in a crit group, crummy?
CrummyButt: or assignments
CrummyButt: i would like to be. i've just started looking into it
joanclr: my problem is that I still feel aimless, being unpublished and all - it's hard to shake the newbie feeling and start to feel like this is a "proper job"
Verla: if so, have your crit group assign you a certain amount of words, or an hourly time that you MUST finish before your next meeting/session
CrummyButt: i hear that
joanclr: you always have this worry in the back of your mind "what if it never pans out" lol
LindaJoy: hi
els: wb lyra
Verla: oh, man, I hear you, Joan. I still feel like I'm a newbie!
els: Joan, I still have that after being published here and there
dystar: but it might pan out, joan
dystar: eventually
Verla: I don't know if THAT feeling ever goes away!
CrummyButt: you're voice is nicer than mine, joan. mine says, "you suck."
joanclr: well, I've only sent out my 4th submission so far - and 2 rejections
CrummyButt: oops. your.
joanclr: so I guess I don't have too long of a backlog lol
Verla: Lyra... we are "confessing" our personal writing habits right now. if we do or don't write, and what is working and what isn't in our lives
joanclr: it's not that I'm giving up or anything, it's just sometimes I tend to see it as more "play" than work
LindaJoy: After I made my first sale, I checked back and counted up 20 rejections to the one acceptance
joanclr: and then you tend to put all "work" first
dystar: I think it's a matter of making time and if that means giving something up, so be it
els: what I have found does work, is that when I have a project started, if I just plow through it, writing time is easy to find, but getting started, getting past the first 3 or 4 chapters, is where it is hard.
LindaJoy: make writing a habit...doesn't matter how much you write in one sitting as long as you write something
dystar: me too, els
joanclr: yes, I've heard that - but I just haven't been able to find a time that works
joanclr: consistently, anyway
dystar: which is why the nanowrimo was so good for me
joanclr: I almost did that this year, you know
els: I started a blog journal to get me in the habit of writing SOMETHING every day.
CrummyButt: i've spent a lot of hours writing the past couple of days, and i've got 2.5 pages to show for it. where is my 20-page revelatory fever???
dystar: I did, it was great
joanclr: but November is the month of BOTH my dd's birthdays, and it just did not fly for me last year
Verla: not much of a backlog at all, joan. I look at it like this... you have to "pay your dues" (well most people do!) to become a writer. Part of those "dues" are collecting rejections. So you continue to write and send stories out, and you are slowly paying your dues.... (And if it helps you any, I got rejected for 3 1/2 years before my first book was picked up. Only sold two short stories in all that time - to magazines.
LindaJoy: I just started a blog, only can't remember the address (on a different computer)
dystar: the average "apprenticeship" for a writer is 10 years, I'm told
CrummyButt: oy.
joanclr: wow Verla, that does help, lol
els: thats the average. I've passed it by one year now.
LindaJoy: I sold after 2 1/2 years...different for everyone
dystar: and some succeed earlier
dystar: but not all of us can be like Paula!
joanclr: I've got big dreams ;) but lol that's all they are atm
Verla: ah... but you have to dream before you can succeed
els: Linda Joy, how do you go about setting aside regular writing time?
joanclr: :D
LindaJoy: Dreams are just a step away from making it happen
Verla: If you can dream it, you can attain it.
dystar: one thing I highly recommend: a book called The Artist's Way
LindaJoy: yeah, els -- I try to write most mornings
Verla: oh... sounds good, dy!
joanclr: I actually skimmed through that one time
joanclr: it's pretty interesting
els: hey Toni
LindaJoy: My problem is that I rewrite too much as I'm going along now
Dawdle: Hell All.
LindaJoy: hey, Toni
dystar: it's a big commitment, but it helps
Dawdle: Sorry I'm late.
Amishka: I sold my book after five years, my first article was after two
CrummyButt: i just pared my first 5 pages down to 2.5
LindaJoy: good for you, Crum
joanclr: my problem right now is trying to write longer things
Amishka: oops. I actually sold before that article - twice I just forgot
CrummyButt: i feel like i've accomplished nothing, though
joanclr: I'm finding short and easy stories, poetry, pb type material comes no problem
els: my first articles sold right off the bat, and I am embarrassed to admit, they were rough drafts. But that isn't where my heart is for writing.
joanclr: but i have a few ideas for chapter books, YA and/or early reader, and it's like a huge mental block to start
dystar: I'm too wordy. pb's are hard for me
CrummyButt: they're so many pages, right?
els: working on novels seriously for over 10 years and so far just a couple of polite nibbles
dystar: a journey begins with a single step...
joanclr: Yes, I think it's just right now I'm gamboling in so many different directions that small bites is about all I can do
CrummyButt: you know, i just wrote a 150-page textbook in 3 weeks. why can't I do that with my YA?
joanclr: I can't seem to dive into anythign long enough to really fall into the mood of it and get that detail deatil thatis needed for longer works
dystar: have you done character sketches?
Dawdle: OTOH, the market for PB's is completely flat.
joanclr: is it totally leveled out right now?
Verla: One of the best books I've ever read on time management (for writers) is called: Time Management for Writers by Schwarz
Dawdle: Yes, Joan. Editors, Agents and authors are all reporting the same thing.
Verla: don't worry about it, joan. It will come back
CrummyButt: i like the idea of character sketches. i've found that i can't do them until i find a voice for the character, though
joanclr: Well, I just hope I haven't gone through all the houses and worn them out to my ms by that time LOL
Verla: I made up a fantastic, detailed outline for character sketches
dystar: things like, favourite colour, insect, clothing, etc
Verla: some day I'll get it posted on line...
joanclr: Character sketches are good- it's something I haven't actually done yet
joanclr: there is a really good book by Noah Lukeman that goes into all kinds of detail of all the questions to ask yourself about your characters
dystar: really helps to focus
CrummyButt: verla, i think you posted it once and that's what i'm using. it's great!
joanclr: I bought the book, but have yet to try it out on any of my ms, lol - precisely because I am piddling around on pb
Verla: character sketches can help you write, but they don't help you find the time to write
els: something I've found is that often I try to start a book at teh wrong moment. It may need to begin earlier or later in the character's story. When you find the right starting point, the story can just explode
joanclr: Then again, it's a good warmup for me too, so I don't want to knock that
Verla: ha, crummy! Good. I'm glad
els: out of your fingers onto the paper
joanclr: Really, Verla - that sounds cool
Amishka: Crummy, I can't really do character sketches until I have the character's voice either
joanclr: do you still have it?
dystar: oh, I just don't do housework, that's all
Verla: I think the hardest part of writing is just getting STARTED
CrummyButt: so, how cooperative are everyone's housemates in helping you carve out time?
Dawdle: I was actually talking to an author friend about that today. She's going to table all of her pb's and wait for the market to pick up so that she hasn't expended all of her options during a time when PB's aren't selling.
LindaJoy: But you're started on books, V...just need to perfect them
dystar: mine is great
Dawdle: She's published PB's and Novels, btw.
joanclr: very good point about the starter, els, so true
LindaJoy: Toni--interesting stratagey
Verla: Yes, somewhere, joan. You have to understand I'm still "moving"... have been for a year now. Most of my stuff (including my time management book!) is all still in storage
els: my husband does his best, and he encourages me writing, but the kids are less helpful.
dystar: allow yourself to write crud; it doesn't have to be perfect the first time around
LindaJoy: kids are only helpful for using what they say & do as writing material
Verla: writing around children is a real juggling act
joanclr: cool Verla :)
LindaJoy: Although I know some friends who have kids help with editing
Verla: you have to get used to working in five minute blocks of time (or often less!)
dystar: mine are in school all day (but not right now)
Amishka: Finding time to write maybe as simple as cutting time in other things
CrummyButt: tom's pretty good, but we both work at home 24-7, and he likes to bounce in and out of my office constantly
Amishka: you have to make time to write
joanclr: You know, I found that to be a real key - to write crud. If I know something is the wrong word, just write it anyway
joanclr: I can go back and fix it later
CrummyButt: he's like a 4-year-old on amphetamines
joanclr: but if I stop then the momentum is gone
Amishka: by taking less time to do other things
Verla: I have a trick for that, joan!
joanclr: Kids for writring material - yes! I've gotten 3 great story ideas just in the past week lol
els: when I finished my first novel my daughter was 2 years old, my son was 4 1/2. It was not easy, and I have no clue how I did it. I remember Jo sitting on the floor under my desk, though, playing with her toys so quietly.
Verla: if you are writing on the computer, and you know a word is not right, or a phrase, or whatever, I highlight it and turn it to RED.
dystar: sometimes I find that when I have a long stretch of time ahead of me, I don't use it
joanclr: Very true about the 5 minute blocks verla - that is my specialty, lol
Dawdle: It's pretty hard to write a novel in five minute snatches.
joanclr: Hahaha.. I don't think my kids ever sat and played with their toys quietly LOL
joanclr: (j/k)
Verla: then next time I go back, it's very easy for me to see the spots I know need work. Somehow, by changing the color, I can go on past it, KNOWING I won't forget about it later.
joanclr: (but they are a wild houseful)
Amishka: If you have to watch the kids in the tub - clean the bathroom at the same time that way the time you would use for cleaning the bathroom you can use for writing
Verla: I started my novel that way, toni
els: yes, it is. You really need a good hour or more to get a respectable amount done on a novel.
CrummyButt: i like the highlighting idea.
Amishka: same goes with cooking and cleaning the kitchen
els: good ideas, Mish
dystar: what frustrates me is the time revision takes
Verla: heh heh heh... better yet, give the kids rags in the bathtub and let them scrub the tub while they're in it. ;-)
Amishka: you have to pool all the little bits of time you make during the day for writing
joanclr: good tip about the colors, Verla
CrummyButt: maybe i should have me some kids
els: (Toni, Jojo says Hi.)
LindaJoy: highlight could be quite a chore in a 50K novel (g)
Verla: revisions are my favorite parts of writing... it doesn't take so much creativity as writing from scratch, dy
CrummyButt: i like the tinkering part of revisions
dystar: no, I like the fiddling -- it's just that it sucks time away
LindaJoy: yeah, I enjoy revisions -- AFTER the first draft is done
CrummyButt: i don't like overhauling
Amishka: Make sure your family knows not to bother you during this time - put on a movie for a young child and tell them after the movie you can play with them
Dawdle: Hi to JoJo!
joanclr: It's the first draft that really sucks for me
joanclr: Just getting it down
Verla: ah, but you can do THAT in bed, dy. Or in the bathroom, even.
Verla: (if you are working on a novel, take one or two chapters only with you.)
Verla: yep. that's the hardest part for me, too, joan
Verla: (and revising the final story so my editor will take it!!!!!! <gnash teeth>)
LindaJoy: Be firm with your family so they respect your writing, don't let them call it a hobby (unless it is)
Amishka: I agree, Linda
Verla: that can be a real hard thing, lyra...
joanclr: very good
dystar: I usually revise on the computer, but sometimes I print it out and take it to a coffee shop or something
joanclr: For example, I should have given advance notice about this Chat - the world is falling apart upstairs, lol
Amishka: When you are writing you are working. The sooner you believe that the sooner your family will.
Verla: I think that first and foremost, you have to decide for yourself if it IS a hobby - or is it a career change for you?
CrummyButt: exactly, dy. the change of scenery really helps me.
dystar: I made up a sign: "Mom working, stay out"
joanclr: Ha, good one
CrummyButt: i've been going to the coffee shop this week, and it has really helped.
Verla: I have a sign, too! (it's in storage, of course)
CrummyButt: i'm my own worst distraction, really
Verla: It says, Writer at Work!
Verla: Keep Out
joanclr: cool
Verla: or something like that
els: brb- kids are acting up
AlmaFuller: If I had a sign and didn't have a seven year old mine would say something else Verla
Verla: heh heh heh...speaking of kids
Verla: LOL ami!
dystar: I SO look forward to school starting
Verla: so when you find yourself pittering your time away, what works best for you to get you back to BIC? (Butt in Chair)
AlmaFuller: I have to make two, one for when Jess or Claude comes in and one for when Chantale comes in
joanclr: Caffeine :D
LindaJoy: Just be firm with them Alma--you've sold now so that should help
CrummyButt: fear
dystar: sometimes I justhave to get out of bed before my insecurities do
joanclr: (I'm not a coffee drinker, so dark chocolate, a few squares, does it for me, lol)
CrummyButt: fear of failure has been a good motivator lately
AlmaFuller: I am firm Linda.
dystar: fear of success is what slows us down sometimes
LindaJoy: Alma, if that doesn't work, come fly to my house and I'll let you write uninterrupted
AlmaFuller: thanks
Julie: I was a wrote every night unlil this 2nd baby came and ate my time and energy. But now she is 20m things are easier but I've lost the good habits Like not watching TV
AlmaFuller: This week has been hard because my inlaws are here
LindaJoy: I have in the past visualized the success I want and some of those images have come true
CrummyButt: i also find myself getting stuck on things i'd like to write about but can't bring myself to because my mom or whatever might get mad. mind you, i'm 34.
AlmaFuller: but normally I'm very good at making time to write
els: oh, Crummy, I know exactly what you are saying
AlmaFuller: I do a lot of mind writing at work and when I'm away from the computer
dystar: I wrote 9 songs while on holidays
AlmaFuller: Crummy write them as fiction
LindaJoy: That's good, Alma -- some of my easiest writing came after taking a mental break to plan it ahead of writing
CrummyButt: it helps me to be away from the computer. i get headaches and i'm a compulsive surfer
joanclr: I'm an email junkie, it absolutely sucks all my time
dystar: better to use paper then
LindaJoy: yeah--email is an addiction for me
dystar: i had to strip all the games off my laptop
els: I think the internet can be the greatest blessing and the most foul curse on a writer.
AlmaFuller: Most of my stories are planned out in my head long before I get them on the computer so I'm usually able to get a first draft down fairly fast (depending on the book)
CrummyButt: Alma, i still fear that mind-reading mom that existed when i was a kid
dystar: ah, you need the artist's way, cb
AlmaFuller: Yes, the Artist's Way is a fantastic book
CrummyButt: excellent. i'll check it out
els: who wrote that again?
AlmaFuller: I've recommended it in several of my articles
AlmaFuller: Julia Cameron
els: ty
joanclr: hmm, things are quieting down a bit
dystar: the best part is that it lets you give yourself permission to be what you want to be
els: hey Jaina
Julie: Hi
joanclr: hi Jaina
Jaina: Hi, gang.
CrummyButt: hiya
AlmaFuller: another fantastic book is called Wish Craft sorry I can't remember who wrote it
Jaina: I love Wish Craft!
Jaina: I've given my copies away. ; (
joanclr: where did Verla go?
Verla: crummy, don't worry about writing things that your mother wouldn't want to see. Write them anyway. You can always stick them in a drawer and wait until the far future to publish them. ( or publish them under a pseudonym
AlmaFuller: Barbara Sher
els: crud, my library doesn't have the Artist's way
dystar: you can usually pick one up in a used book store, els
els: hi Kay
dystar: hi kay
CrummyButt: hi kay
Verla: sorry, joan... I had company arrive at the door unexpectedly. (I sent him away with a noodle in his mouth. LOL!)
els: I'll have to look.
joanclr: lol
Kay: hey ya'll
CrummyButt: good work, verla
Kay: the company?
els: a noodle? just one noodle?
dystar: my sister gave me my copy, but it took me 5 years before I had the courage to try it
Kay: try what dystar?
Verla: yes, kay. I told him I couldn't talk, I was in a Discussion on Line!
CrummyButt: the noodle
Verla: heh heh heh
dystar: the Artist's Way
joanclr: all this talk of the Artist's Way, I think I'm gonna check it out again
AlmaFuller: Jaina, is Barbara Sher the right author for wishcraft?
Kay: ohhhhhhhhhhh
Verla: I haven't read it!
Verla: I'm missing something?
joanclr: Verla, I did the same thing, my dh has been badgering me to come upstairs for the past 20 mins lol
Jaina: Yep
Jaina: http://www.barbarasher.com/wishcraf.htm
Verla: tell him this is only two nights a month, joan.
Verla: he can handle the kids for two nights for an hour or so
joanclr: yep, well it snuck up on me - I'd been waiting all day but didn't realize it got so late so quick
Jaina: That book helped me when I was being a lawyer and hating it
Verla: me, too, joan!
joanclr: you know, you gotta give them advance notice "OK, I'm leaving in an hour" "Leaving in 20 minutes" etc
joanclr: instead I just up and disappeared all of a sudden, lol
dystar: which one, jaina?
Verla: heh heh. Very true, joan
Jaina: "Wishcraft"
Jaina: by Barbara Sher
joanclr: cool, I'll have to check that one out too
dystar: me too
Kay: I didn't realize you were a lawyer Jaina
Verla: hmmm. Maybe that same method would work for writing time, joan...
Jaina: it's sort of about finding what you really want to be/are meant to be doing and how to go about starting to do it
els: hi Dori
AlmaFuller: hi dori
joanclr: hmmm, good point, lol
Jaina: Hi, Dori
Kay: hello dori
Verla: tell them, I'm going to be unavailable for an hour starting at X time...
CrummyButt: hi, dori
Verla: Hi dori!
Kay: ack eyesight is failing, I almost called Dori Don
joanclr: yes, just gotta set a specific time
joanclr: that's what I'm seeing I need
Dori: Hi, everyone. Are we in a schedulted chat?
els: I think I must be a very lucky person, I've always known exactly what my life was meant to be, since I was about 6 years old.
joanclr: just finding a consistent one is touch
joanclr: tough*
Verla: good! Another published writer to share her "making time to write" methods with us
els: I've always known I would write
Dawdle: Hi Dori!
Kay: I did too els, it's just taken me a long time to get there
Dori: Hey, Toni!
Kay: I was discouraged from writing as a child
dystar: "I'm sorry. The parent you have reached is not available at this time."
Verla: we're in an open discussion, dori...
joanclr: I've always been writing, but I've only been looking into publishing pretty recently
Kay: LOL!
Verla: with a set topic... Making Time to Write
Dori: Thanks, Verla
Dori: At the moment, I wish I had time to write
Kay: well I know the test writing has taught me a lot about writing in the middle of chaos
Jaina: I read a bit of Kristi Holl's writer tips guide I got from Chautauqua
Kay: in every spare moment and working quickly
dystar: it wasn't until about 5-6years ago that I decided i would sit down and really make a go of it
els: My mother was never enthusiastic about my writing, but she didn't openly discourage me from it. She is getting better about it lately.
Jaina: she told a neat story about making writing a priority
Kay: it's also taught me to forge ahead because I have a definite deadline and money at stake
CrummyButt: it didn't occur to me until recently (after i got a job writing, actually) that writing might be a good career for me
Verla: I used to tell my family, OKAY... I'm going to WRITE now. Don't bother me, don't talk to me, don't even breathe near me, unless there's blood, or someone is turning blue and can't breathe.
Jaina: Crummy! LOL. Your name is CrummyButt?
Kay: Crummy, what is your day job if I may ask?
Jaina: Hi, Shelly!
Kay: LOL...Verla I've been telling the kids that
Kay: don't disturb me unless you are bleeding
Julie: I thinking about getting the 10 yolds next door to babysit for a hour-while I'm writing- has anyone tried that?
Kay: and sure enough Bobby came up to me one day with a scratch on his toe
Kay: I did with a 13 yr old Julie
AlmaFuller: There's a website called the flylady she has tons of time saving ideas for everyday things. http://www.flylady.net
Kay: well not for writing for packing
Dori: Julie, you could give it a trial
Jaina: 10 year olds babysitting sounds like it might be more trouble than its worth!
Jaina: depending on the 10 year olds
Kay: grrrrr.....flylady
joanclr: lol
els: with kittens in the house, my kids are always bleeding, lol. I'd never get a moment's peace!
shelly: but reading all the flylady emails takes ALOT of time
Dawdle: Forgive me, I need to duck out now
Kay: yep, do you have an older kid around
Verla: I haven't, julie, but I've heard of people doing it, and it works great for some people
Dawdle: Write well --and OFTEN :>
els: see you, Toni!
Dori: Nite, Toni
dystar: bye toni
joanclr: bye
AlmaFuller: Julie, that's a great idea,
Kay: yep....she was too much like a bossy big sis to me, and I already have one of those
AlmaFuller: depending on the ten year old
CrummyButt: i write k-12 ELA and math study guides for The Princeton Review. I help on the college guides some, too.
Verla: if you have the ten year old right there, in the next room (with the door open) so you can see what's going on, it can work
Verla: depending on the ten year old. Right
AlmaFuller: if you trust her as long as you're in the house it would be a good way to get some time
Kay: so this is a full time job like you go to an office and stuff Crummy?
LindaJoy: got to go for a while...bye
CrummyButt: oh, you're a laugh-riot, Jaina
els: bye Lyra
Dori: The younger kids usually love to play with an older child. Could give you an hour, Julie
Kay: I'm doing test writing for McGraw Hill through Elance right now
Jaina: My sister used to be nanny to a kid whose parents were always home
Jaina: it was very difficult to keep the kid from disturbing them anyway
Verla: I bet it was, jaina
Jaina: I imagine a 10 year old would have a hard time with that control
shelly: i would think my kids would still come to me for everything if i was home
els: hi Jeff
Kay: hi Jeff
Verla: of course, a lot would depend on the size and layout of the house, too
Jeff_S: Hi folks
joanclr: hi there
Dori: Julie, will your kids be in school in the fall?'
Dori: Hi, Jeffie
Verla: so tell us your "time management" tricks of the trade, jeff?
Verla: jeff is a whole nother "kind" of author
els: I had thought about having my landlord's daughters watch the kids while I wrote, but they would be as much in my hair as my own kids, lol. that idea is nixed
Jeff_S: I have no time management. I wait until the last minute and freak out. AHHHHHH!
Jaina: if they could watch them at their house, Els...
Verla: he's single, and so he doesn't have kids underfoot or a spouse to worry about
joanclr: lol
shelly: i always wonder if i have time to chat, why don't i have time to write....hmmm
AlmaFuller: another time saving tip is when you're illustrating writing whatever have everything you need within reach
Dori: Yeah, els. It depends upon the kids
joanclr: ha, good point shelly ;)
Kay: my two play together well which has given me a lot of time this summer
Kay: but come fall it will be me and the five year old and I'm homeschooling him for kinder
Verla: shelly... it's a matter of priorities
Julie: one will start school in Jan- bit this octopus is -2years
Jaina: I have time to write, but then my husband is a dream and gives me the time
shelly: but of course, i DON'T have much time to chat, that's why i just popped in now, 40 minutes late
Jaina: even if he didn't though, I could MAKE it
CrummyButt: i work at home. i started working for the company when i was living in NYC (i work for the Manhattan office), but i was able to keep my job when i moved to NC. it's mostly full time, but the past couple of years have been a little dicey
Verla: you have to make writing a priority to have time for it
Verla: Hmmm. That's MY problem!
AlmaFuller: sometimes to write you have to give up time spent on boards or email lists
Verla: Writing has not been priority #1 ever since we started this move. Everything else is!
Kay: that's good you can do it at home, CB
dystar: think of it as a sabbatical, verla
Dori: I think I accomplished more writing when I was strapped for time. Now I have all the time I want, and don't get as much writing done
Jeff_S: Dori, I agree
shelly: i think sometimes you have to give yourself permission to have other priorities..temporarily
joanclr: Dori, that's actually true
dystar: hey, that's like me, dori
joanclr: I found the same thing
Jeff_S: Make yourself busy so you really, really need to write when you can
joanclr: haha, yes
Jeff_S: When free time is abundant, writing doesn't seem that big a priority
CrummyButt: Durham
joanclr: the more time you hav, the more there is to do
Jeff_S: Very strange, that
els: ok
dystar: if I have nothing to do, i do nothing
Verla: Oh, dori... that's one of my problems, too.
shelly: i've always heard: if you want something done, ask a busy person
Dori: When I worked, I used to do a lot of 'writer's thinking', then type it out when I had time. Now I procrastinate
shelly: busy people manage to get a lot more done it seems
joanclr: yep
Verla: I wrote a lot when I had no time at all... now that I have all day every day (so to speak), I find I have NO time to write
CrummyButt: i've found that there's no greater incentive to clean the toilets than a brand-new project looming over my head
Jaina: brb gang... I'll be afk for a minute
Kay: yes...I've found that true...shelly...the busier I am the more I get done
dystar: lol, cb
shelly: it's the story of the tortiose and the hare, verla
els: when I was working last year and this year, I had no time to write, and for some reason I got a LOT of writing done. Now that I am not working, I get no writing done.
Kay: I relax too much when I don't have deadlines
dystar: whew. glad it's not just me
shelly: yes, kay, same here
Jeff_S: So, there's the biggest tip EVAH -- become really, really busy, and then you'll feel compelled to write more
dystar: that's why I have to give myself deadlines
shelly: right!
Jeff_S: Also, don't get involved in any relationships of any kind, 'cause they are distracting
Kay: Jeff, I'm known for working well under pressure and getting a lot done under extreme circumstances
Jeff_S: I think I need to shut up and listen to all of you, as I have this book due in exactly two months and I'm only a third done
els: lol, Jeff
Verla: I find I will usually get more done if I have to
Kay: I do well under pressure
joanclr: Deadlines - I need to do that
joanclr: but I can't seem to hold myself to it
shelly: yes, being busy is a very good thing
dystar: even if it's "get this bit done by the end of today"
Verla: I finally found my Commitments from February
Dori: aha! So, it sounds like we all need to be busy with other things in order to get the writing done
Kay: if you do work that requires deadlines..then self imposed deadlines becomes easier
joanclr: The thing about deadlines (self imposed) is ther ehas to be a consequence if you don't make it
joanclr: or there's no point
Verla: Finish revising Hornbooks & Inkwells... (I'm not done yet. Did it twice, but it's still not acceptable to my editor yet...)
shelly: joan, if you're self imposed deadline doesn't seem to be working, try telling someone else ab out it, then you'll feel more pressure to get it done
Verla: and...
els: ok, I can't stay because the kittens are gettin rowdy and I need to pick up my weaving or it will become knitting- night all
Verla: Finish writing the first draft of Drummer Boy
Kay: you get into the habit...and if you realize you can produce good work under pressure with a deadline..that chases away that "I don't have time" demon
dystar: bye els
Verla: not done with THAT either, although I've got most of the research books for it out of storage and in the house, now.
shelly: i need a discussion on "making time to chat", i think that should've been a prereq to this
joanclr: good idea, shelly
joanclr: maybe I should make a big sign for myself and post it on my wall lol
dystar: yeah, I told my whole church when I was doing the nanowrimo thing
Dori: I'm not sure how it works with novelists, but for me, being a picbook writers, most of the 'writing' is pre-thinking the story out.
dystar: that way I felt I couldn't let them down by failing at it
Jeff_S: I do that too, Dori
shelly: joan, in our crit group we share our monthly goals, that way we've made a "commitment" to do it
Kay: yes....I do a lot of think writing...and brainstorming
Jeff_S: Most of my time is spent thinking
CrummyButt: so have any of you found that crit groups make you more productive?
Kay: I also write by hand in a notebook which makes it portable
Dori: Once the story is thought out, the rest comes easier
Verla: now that is PRESSURE, dy!
Kay: and I've also become skilled at writing with the kids around and interrupting me every minute
shelly: yes, crummy, i do
Kay: no, not really
Kay: I"m a pretty hard task master, and am pretty self motivated
Dori: Crummy, yes, I do. I feel I need to present a good story to my crit group
Kay: more motivated by self than others
dystar: well, it was also encouragement, verla
Jeff_S: Can be sometimes, Crummy. First, they need to crit ;)
shelly: so kay, that means you've learned ot tune them out? LOL
joanclr: I'm good at self motivation, just hard at choosing which tasks to self motivate lol
Jeff_S: But sometimes it gets you in a cycle where you keep rewriting early chapters
Verla: mine WOULD, crummy... if I wasn't such a laggard/non participant right now
Jeff_S: And not moving on
Kay: no, I've just learned to work in chaos
Dori: I'm good at self motivation, but am also looking for approval from my crit partners
dystar: so many ideas, so little time
joanclr: I'm with you on that, dy!
joanclr: drives me nuts, jumping from one to the other
Kay: I sometimes find working with others more of a damper than a motivation
dystar: I've never understood how anyone could say they didn't have any ideas...
Dori: LOl.. Dystar, I'm the opposite! So much time, so few ideas!
Verla: me either, dy. I'm filled with ideas. Always!
Dori: Me, dystar!
Kay: I always work on more than one thing at a time...as soon as I get stuck on one...I switch to the other
Dori: Ideas are the most difficult for me
Verla: way too many to ever write all of them
CrummyButt: i have plenty of ideas. most of them involve napping.
Kay: yeah I've got ideas running out my nose
shelly: i don't worry about motivation--if you love writing, and i do, you'll WANT to do it
Verla: ah... I have the ideas... I just don't always have the ENDINGS for the ideas, dori
Dori: Then I envy you all
Kay: that's me Verla
shelly: lol, crummy
joanclr: lol cb
Dori: It's not that I don't have ideas. I get them, but throw 99% of them away
shelly: i love writing, i don't need motivation to write, i just need more hours in the day
Verla: never throw an idea away, dori!!!!
joanclr: true, Verla - some things take a while to germinate all the way
Verla: you throw it into a box or file
Dori: What I have to work on is getting GOOD ideas
Verla: because next year, that idea will germinate/mutate into something spectacular
Kay: sometimes i steer away from others because encouragement from others actually backfires and discourages me
CrummyButt: really? how so?
shelly: kay, i'm the exact opposite
Kay: so sometimes I work best alone
Jeff_S: That happened to me before Kay, because I'm crazy
Verla: didn't you tell me once, dori, that your first picture book was one you'd started writing 20 years before?
shelly: lol
joanclr: I know what you mean, Kay
Jeff_S: I got a fantastic crit that said I was good, and I twisted it to mean I was SO awful they had to lie to me
Jeff_S: Just call me nuts McGee
joanclr: lol
Dori: Yes, Verla. But it was a concept I LIKED, and still liked it after all those years
Verla: right, but the whole point is... 20 years from now, you might find a gem in a discarded idea in your box, too.
Dori: It's my problem. I can't turn a mediocre idea into a good story
Verla: bye, kay
Dori: I'm gonna say Goodnight, too.
Dori: Sweet dreams!
joanclr: night
Verla: night, dori. Thanks for coming by!!!!
CrummyButt: g'night!
Verla: rats. Missed her
joanclr: gotta be short, like me lol
joanclr: :D
shelly: so did i miss any brilliant ideas in the first 40 minutes?
Verla: so... does anyone else have anything really wonderful they want to share before we close our discussion for tonight's session?
Verla: lots of them shelly.
Verla: Time Management for Writers by Schwarz
Verla: is the BEST time management book I've ever seen
dystar: i think it boils down to a matter of choice
Verla: next best one is Julie Morgenstern's Time Management from the Inside Out
shelly: okay, now i have to get going too--will this discussion be posted, verla?
Verla: also, you have to give yourself permission at different times of your life to NOT write, too
shelly: exactly, verla!
Verla: (Like I have done for the past year)
dystar: yes, and to not feel guilty about it
Jaina: These aren't going to be posted, right?
CrummyButt: heh heh
Verla: I don't think so, jaina, why?
Jaina: I was just saying they're not.
Jaina: I didn't think.
Verla: you gonna give us some confessions you don't want shared???
Jaina: Don't I always?
Verla licks her chops and salivates at jaina
shelly: lol, i'll stick around for that then
Jaina: Are you rabid?
CrummyButt: i've heard her toes are webbed
joanclr: lol
shelly: lol, crummy
Jaina: I heard your butt was crummy.
Verla: dang. my secrets are coming out
Verla: LOL
Jaina: Oh, no--that wasn't you.
CrummyButt: sez you.
Verla: by the way, jaina... be sure to read the message board for Moderator's only
shelly: alright, i'm leaving before i come under fire
dystar: bye shelly
shelly: bye
CrummyButt: bye
joanclr: bye
Verla lights the fire under shelly's pot
dystar: too late
Verla: dang missed her too!
joanclr: lol missed it again
joanclr: ;)
Jaina: what'm I supposed to be looking for?
Verla: but I got YOU, jaina... mwahahahahahahha
Verla: els'
dystar: yer gonna set the dungeon on fire, verla
Verla: naw, dy. It's all stone and metal
Verla: only the RACK will burn. Pity the poor person on it
Jaina: Ohhh, I see it
joanclr: lol
dystar: oh, a grease fire
CrummyButt: i could use that rack. my back is stiff.
dystar: yuck
Verla: or maybe the person on the rack will be happy, because they won't have to be tortured any longer....
CrummyButt: hi, sami
Verla: you missed the whole thing, sami!
Verla: we just ended the discussion
Sami: Oh verla, have kids over
dystar: hi sami
Sami: at least I know I can connect!
Sami: hi ystar
CrummyButt: while you're here, do you have any tips for us?
Jaina: The big conclusion of the discussion was... you either make the time or you don't.
Verla: yay, sami!
dystar: yeah, that's about it
Verla: that's very true, jaina. And it honestly comes down to one thing - how badly do want to write?
Sami: I take it in snippets - and I try to remember that I love it!
Jaina: Bad, really really bad. Soooo bad.
CrummyButt: that's a good way of looking at it.
dystar: i have to write now. too many people ask me how it's going
CrummyButt: jaina, you're drooling
dystar: be a shame to disappoint them all
Sami: you will never disappoint!
Jaina: What, that puddle on the floor?
Verla: most of all, it's a shame to disappoint yourself
Jaina: Yeah, drool. That's it.
CrummyButt: you know -- does anyone else get really annoyed when people ask them how their writing is going?
CrummyButt: I always feel like they're accusing me of something.
joanclr: I guess things are winding down, huh
dystar: sometimes i think of giving up on it
Verla: Only because I haven't been doing it, crummyu
joanclr: LOL!!! My window wasn't scrolled down!
Verla: so it makes me feel guilty
joanclr: I thot no one was saying anything ROFL
Jaina: I'm glad my Mom always asks me because it shows she remembered at least one conversation we had.
Verla: I think we all feel like giving it up at times, dy...
Verla: even published people
Jeff_S: Hee, Crummy
Jeff_S: I do too ;)
Jaina: And my Dad, too. I makes me glad they're interested enough to ask.
Sami: I go through that. But my writing is personal and I sometimes just don't want to share where I'm at with others... unless they UNDERSTAND
Jeff_S: I'm like, "I haven't written! Don't judge meeee!"
Verla: right, jeff
Jaina: I only feel bad if I'm not doing any writing, and then i feel guilty
CrummyButt: exactly
dystar: you could just say, "fine, thanks"
Verla: right, jaina
Verla: I plan/hope to get some writing done this week at nationals
Deetie: oh sure, verla.
Jaina: In fact, I finally started writing when I ran into an old acquaintance who said "Didn't you, like, want to be an artist or something?"
Deetie: you'll be writing in LA.
Verla: just being around all the other writers is invigorating
dystar: I have a 2-day crit workshop this week.
CrummyButt: yeah, i do say that. i always get these looks like it's not an acceptable answer, though.
Jaina: And I said "writer" very sheepishly, because up til then I had never even tried.
CrummyButt: in-laws, i tell ya...
Verla: I normally write my best stuff when I'm at conferences, or just after them
dystar: they can be inspiring
Sami: Those of you going to the nationals, I am in LA but not going... wish I could meet up with you all.
Jaina: You could go hang out at the hotel.
Jaina: Photocopy one of your buddy's nametag
Sami: Hmmmm.... maybe I will
Jaina: s
Verla: heh heh heh... I rememeber one day I had just about decided to quit trying to get published. To give up writing.
Verla: then my mother in law said to me...
Verla: "Maybe you just aren't cut out to be a writer, honey."
joanclr: lol
Verla: That was it. The gauntlet was down!
CrummyButt: ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Verla: I was DETERIMINED to show her...
dystar: ooh, nothing like an insult to get you going
Verla: yep, dy.
CrummyButt: that sounds like my sis-in-law
Jaina: Maybe she wasn't cut out to be your mother-in-law.
Jaina: Hey, LJ
joanclr: lol
Sami: Oooooh that would have kicked me in the butt!
Deetie: if they're not cut out for the job, get rid of them.
CrummyButt: mom-in-law is very supportive. to a fault, even
Verla: and after that, I never told her anything about my writing, until I sold my first book. LOL! And then you know what she said?
Jaina: Crummy, your S-I-L is a piece of work
Verla: "I always knew you could do it, honey!"
dystar: lol
Sami: too much
Deetie: too funny verla.
Verla: heh heh heh... she's really wonderful
Deetie: did you smack her?
CrummyButt: again, i say, "AAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!"
LindaJoy: how's she doing, V?
Verla: naw... she didn't remember what she'd said earlier, deet
Verla: getting very forgetful, lyra.
Verla: (she's 93)
Julie: z
Deetie: yikes, old!
Sami: Wow! That deserves an award!
Verla: yep, deetie
Julie: opps
dystar: wow
Verla: so now it's time for your TEST folks!
CrummyButt: gulp
Verla: Here is the TEST:
dystar: oh no
Verla: What did you think of tonight's ProTalk Discussion?
dystar: 'twas fun
Sami: I missed the pro - but liked the chat!!!
Verla: What worked in it for you? Was there anything you feel should have been done differently?
LindaJoy: LOL....
CrummyButt: i enjoyed it. got some good tips
LindaJoy: Did you log it?
CrummyButt: learned about some books, too
Verla: Should we try to post it?
Verla: of course, lyra
dystar: oh, that's a lot of work, verla
Verla: it is, dy...
Sami: how about highlights?
LindaJoy: not sure if it should be posted ... too much work for you, kia
Julie: I'm inspired...
Verla: but if I don't try to match questions and answers, it won't take too long...
LindaJoy: It's more incentive for people to join in if they can't read it later
Verla: if I don't censor it
Verla: edit it, I mean, not censor!
LindaJoy: Of course people love to read logs on your website
CrummyButt: @#&%
LindaJoy: hmmm...so we can swear and type naked?
Jaina: Yeah, I agree. If you don't post then that'll encourage people to come
Verla: lyra! BEHAVE yourself.
joanclr: lol
CrummyButt: wait, no one else is nekked?
Jaina: otherwise, they say "well, I'll just read the transcript"
dystar: only under my clothes
LindaJoy: I'm behaving...
Verla: but if I do post it, then we'll end up with a whole course on writing! Written by YOU FOLKS who DID come
CrummyButt: i'm so glad i figured out this whole chat thing
Verla: so are we, crummy!
joanclr: there was some good stuff that would be cool to read over
Julie: Me too
Sami: It's a first for me!
CrummyButt: now i have another excuse to ignore my hubby
joanclr: same here
Verla: LOL crummy and joan
joanclr: about teh chat I mean, lol
joanclr: not the huby ;)
Julie: Het there tg
Julie: I mean Hi
tgseale: I'm late! I'm late!
CrummyButt: Hi, TG!
Verla: hi tg!
tgseale: Hi Julie, Crummy, everyone!
dystar: hi tg
Sami: hello
Verla: you missed the whole thing, tg
joanclr: hi there
tgseale: shoot! I knew it. I couldn't get here any sooner, though I tried. Sorry :(
Verla: that's okay, tg. You will be able to get to all the rest of em now
*** Verla has set the topic on channel #kidlit to Writers & Illustrators of Children's Literature Meet Here Nightly - Welcome!