Author Topic: I'm working on sci-fi that will be perceived as fantasy (I think) (Read 1294 times)

MichaelBlackbourn · « **on:** October 11, 2012, 11:52 PM »

The story I'm working on is hard sci-fi in almost every way. However if you look at the art I'm working on for it you might think otherwise:

http://www.cindercast.com

The only real stretch away from reality I'm taking is bringing what are basically normal people down to the scale of barnacles. Once our perspective is down there I'm playing it straight, no magic, just physics (there might even be tiny robots their size too).

This isn't even a story about the big people meeting the little people. Or people shrinking.... These people are native to that scale. It's just about the little people and their experiences in their world.

I think I'm going to have trouble explaining what genre this story is. It's sort of hard sci-fi... But where's the spaceships? It looks like little elves or something... Sure but no magic...

Ideas on what kind of category I've put myself in here? I guess there are elements of the 'fantastic' here... The scale of the characters... But no more than 'warp drive' or 'teleporters' or 'lightsabers'.

In fact, Star Wars was basically fantasy in space.... Knights with magic powers and swords, dark wizards. However I'm pretty sure little people living on the beach doesn't classify as "sci-fi/space opera" either.

Raynbow Gignilliat · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2012, 08:41 AM »

Star Wars is classified as fantasy. Based on your illustrations, I'd say give it a fantasy label. But don't get too caught up in the label. That can always be changed. For querying purposes just say something like: Middle Grade fantasy. Or you could even say MG science fiction with fantastical elements.

Vijaya · « **Reply #2 on:** October 12, 2012, 09:15 AM »

Look at some of the titles by TOR ... they do SFF.
Vijaya

ShirleyH · « **Reply #3 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:41 AM »

There is a science fiction novel (106 pages) by Robert Bloch called "This Crowded Earth." People are genetically engineered. It's free on the Kindle.

Artemesia · « **Reply #4 on:** October 12, 2012, 10:59 AM »

Could you call it an MG adventure for the purposes of querying? Or like Raynbow suggested?

James Maxey's BITTERWOOD seems like a fantasy (dragons), but it's got science fiction elements as well, like nanotechnology.

Joni · « **Reply #5 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:24 AM »

Quote from: Raynbow Gignilliat on October 12, 2012, 08:41 AM

Star Wars is classified as fantasy.

Partly because of its themes, which distinguishes fantasy from sci-fi almost as much as the "is it possible or not" criteria. What are your themes, Michael? It could simply *be* a fantasy, even if it's physically plausible.

PatEsden · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:50 AM »

Artemesia already beat me to it. I was going to recomend James Maxey's Dragon Age series as well. It seems like fantasy, but the reader learns it's fairly hard science partway through. I know he's talked about this issue on his blog or an interview. Try googling him.

Artemesia · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:53 AM »

Quote from: PatEsden on October 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

Artemesia already beat me to it. I was going to recomend James Maxey's Dragon Age series as well. It seems like fantasy, but the reader learns it's fairly hard science partway through. I know he's talked about this issue on his blog or an interview. Try googling him.

that was one of the things I loved when I read it...you don't realize it's really science fiction until later on...very cool concept!

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #8 on:** October 13, 2012, 08:43 PM »

Quote from: PatEsden on October 12, 2012, 11:50 AM

Artemesia already beat me to it. I was going to recomend James Maxey's Dragon Age series as well. It seems like fantasy, but the reader learns it's fairly hard science partway through. I know he's talked about this issue on his blog or an interview. Try googling him.

I'll try and check this out, it sounds cool.

I think using the word adventure is probably best for now. What would the stories and world of pokemon be classified as? Fantasy I guess... But it's more of an alternate reality, no wizards or dwarfs. But plenty of monsters with special abilities.

I notice everyone mentions query letters. I don't even know what that is (I'm guessing it's how you try and attract attention from a publisher, like a cover letter). I'm planning on self publishing if possible, so I don't know if the category matters that much in my case.

macdibble · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2012, 06:12 AM »

Andre Norton always wrote about fantastical characters on other planets, in quite a fantasy style, but her work was labelled science fiction.

I wouldn't worry about labelling your work up front. It's not like anyone ever thinks, "oh, The Borrowers, that's urban fantasy." Children's fiction is enough. You don't need to pigeonhole it to sell it. If you do, just call it speculative, which covers all those genres.

RuthD · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2012, 10:06 AM »

I think I'd just refer to it as "(age range) sci fi/fantasy." Once you have an agent or editor hooked, they can make the final call. Good luck!

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2012, 12:16 PM »

The borrowers is a great example. In fact it was the trailer for the film 'the secret world of arriety' that helped inspire me to start writing. I'm a huge fan of Hayao Myazaki and studio ghibli's films. Arriety is a Japanese take on the borrowers.

I'm choosing to not make it about a clash between the big and little worlds. I'm just using the perspective of the little people to bring to life and into a scale we can appreciate all the critters that live on the shoreline.

Joni · « **Reply #12 on:** October 15, 2012, 02:40 AM »

Quote from: MichaelBlackbourn on October 13, 2012, 08:43 PM

But it's more of an alternate reality, no wizards or dwarfs. But plenty of monsters with special abilities.

Wizards or dwarfs are hardly a requirement... that's high fantasy specifically. Most book folks seem to view fantasy as the *much* broader category (from paranormal to ghosts to alternate history to epic to talking animals...) and sci-fi as a much more specific, narrower, and "harder" beast. And I dare say "fantasy" is the easier category to sell, but obviously that depends on your audience.

Vijaya · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:05 AM »

Michael, I am NOT a big fan of animation, but boy did I love the adaptation of the Borrowers. Have you seen Grave of the Fireflies? It might be done by the same studio. It is probably the first animation I saw where I was not distracted by the technique itself and was totally lost in the story. Amazing work.

Okay, back to regular conversation ...

Vijaya

amberlough · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:35 AM »

GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES was based on Miyazaki's own story, actually, during WWII. :-( So sad.

But back to your story... your art is beautiful! Are you SURE you want to self-publish?

Andrea B · « **Reply #15 on:** October 15, 2012, 11:18 AM »

The label is more for marketing and book stores (to know where to put the book), and it can fluctuate based on the market, from what I've heard. If you self-publish, you may need to consider that more, but if you go the traditional publishing route you may discover the same story is labeled different things depending on to whom the publisher and marketing department folks are talking. (I recently attended a panel at the Southern Festival of Books in which this was discussed by one author who said her book is hard to label.)

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2012, 12:55 PM »

Quote from: amberlough on October 15, 2012, 08:35 AM

GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES was based on Miyazaki's own story, actually, during WWII. :-( So sad.

But back to your story... your art is beautiful! Are you SURE you want to self-publish?

Takahata directed Grave and it was based on the author of the book's (Akiyuki Nosaka) experience.

Great film.

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2012, 12:58 PM »

Quote from: Vijaya on October 15, 2012, 08:05 AM

Michael, I am NOT a big fan of animation, but boy did I love the adaptation of the Borrowers. Have you seen Grave of the Fireflies? It might be done by the same studio. It is probably the first animation I saw where I was not distracted by the technique itself and was totally lost in the story. Amazing work.

Okay, back to regular conversation ...

Vijaya

Excellent film and I really enjoy almost everything Ghibli produces. Nausicaa is probably my all time favorite film.

Artemesia · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:25 PM »

I LOVED Nausicaa!!

I'm also wondering about your reasons for wanting to self-publish? It can be a good decision for some, but not for others. I'm just curious because you said you are new to the industry and don't know a lot about how it works yet. I'd read our self-publishing threads here if you haven't already, to see what's involved. To self-publish well, you really need a good head for business, and the time to be your own marketing team, designer, copyeditor, etc, or have the money to pay others for these services. But also check into traditional publishing as well. It could be that self-publishing is the right choice, but I'd make sure you've researched all avenues so you can make an informed decision on how best to publish your work.

Your art is fantastic, btw.

Danyelle · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:55 PM »

Lovely art.

I love the feel of it.

Categories are going to matter no matter how you publish. They exist both so your reader can find you, and serve as a baseline for reader expectations. By self-publishing, you'll have greater latitude with categories, but they're still going to be important. From what I've seen, I would definitely classify this as fantasy.

I second what Artemesia said above. In anything, it's good to understand all your options. Self-publishing and querying require a lot of the same skills (query letters are a lot like story blurbs; dealing with rejection; writing and editing skills), but have a different mindset. Different modes of publishing work best with certain types of personalities, skill sets, and expectations.

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #20 on:** October 15, 2012, 03:25 PM »

Quote from: Danyelle on October 15, 2012, 01:55 PM

Lovely art. I love the feel of it.

Categories are going to matter no matter how you publish. They exist both so your reader can find you, and serve as a baseline for reader expectations. By self-publishing, you'll have greater latitude with categories, but they're still going to be important. From what I've seen, I would definitely classify this as fantasy.

I second what Artemesia said above. In anything, it's good to understand all your options. Self-publishing and querying require a lot of the same skills (query letters are a lot like story blurbs; dealing with rejection; writing and editing skills), but have a different mindset. Different modes of publishing work best with certain types of personalities, skill sets, and expectations.

Thanks. I'm attracted to the idea of self publishing beacuse I like the idea of having all the control, success and failures being mine to own. My ideas on that might change over time as try and get this finished but for now the ebook-self publishing model seems really attractive to me and I think will be the future of books in general.

I recently finished readin 'Wool' by Hugh Howey (self published ebook) and he did something really interesting. He released it a 'novella' of 20,000 words for 99 cents. It did really well and got him writing more and more and is now up to 6 books of that length with another 5 to go. Eventually he bundeled the first 5 as an 'omnibus edition' for 4.99.

It let him get fans and feedback as he went. It also feels a bit like a serial tv show or something where you don't have to wait forever to get the next one (all six of these books were during this year). And he could control the pace of releasing them letting him control the flow of story to his fans. Very cool model.

-Mike

Danyelle · « **Reply #21 on:** October 15, 2012, 03:51 PM »

Quote from: MichaelBlackbourn on October 15, 2012, 03:25 PM

Thanks. I'm attracted to the idea of self publishing beacuse I like the idea of having all the control, success and failures being mine to own. My ideas on that might change over time as try and get this finished but for now the ebook-self publishing model seems really attractive to me and I think will be the future of books in general.

I recently finished readin 'Wool' by Hugh Howey (self published ebook) and he did something really interesting. He released it a 'novella' of 20,000 words for 99 cents. It did really well and got him writing more and more and is now up to 6 books of that length with another 5 to go. Eventually he bundeled the first 5 as an 'omnibus edition' for 4.99.

It let him get fans and feedback as he went. It also feels a bit like a serial tv show or something where you don't have to wait forever to get the next one (all six of these books were during this year). And he could control the pace of releasing them letting him control the flow of story to his fans. Very cool model.

-Mike

Awesome. :D Those are some of the same reasons I chose self-publishing. That, and the SP model made the most business sense to me (for me).

I love being able to play with structure and form, and having an outlet that allows me to do this. My novels have all been ordinary novel form so far, but in a month or so, I'll be releasing the first phase of my first episodic serial experiment. (I did a serial serial experiment last year, but am more drawn to episodic serials.) If you're interested in the structure and form for episodic serials, thesecretstorylair.blogspot.com is a great resource. It's relatively new, but already has some great gems posted.

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2012, 10:28 AM »

For my first 'part' that ive written I have a decent start, middle, and end. There are two major sources of conflict or tension in the story and by the end she's resolved one and has a good lead on how to resolve the next, it seems like everything is on the path to being sorted out. During the 10000 words I introduce a bunch of stuff about the world and drop hints of a bigger story and more sinister happenings but I'm not actually bringing them into play. If I can actually finish part 1 and get it illustrated.... Then well see about starting part 2.

One cool thing I might try is having the first chapter of part 2 as an epilogue to part 1. That way you know more is coming and can leave the story on a terrible cliffhanger while still properly wrapping up part 1. Noone will fault you for leaving it unfinished if they know there reading only a snippet of something.

amberlough · « **Reply #23 on:** October 16, 2012, 11:45 AM »

Oops about GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES. I guess that was how rumors get started...

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #24 on:** October 19, 2012, 11:14 PM »

Quote from: amberlough on October 16, 2012, 11:45 AM

Oops about GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES. I guess that was how rumors get started...

It's easy to mistake all of the Ghibli films as being from Myazaki.

I was going to list my favorites but its hard as it includes pretty much all of Myazaki's work. Nausicaa is definitely my favorite though. With Mononoke or Castle in the Sky as a second.

Jenn Reese · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2012, 12:46 PM »

FWIW, my MG books (which have bioengineered mythological creatures) are called "science fantasy" or just "adventure." The MG audience really doesn't draw the distinction between sf and fantasy like adult audiences do.

Best,
Jenn

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2012, 09:30 AM »

Quote from: Jenn Reese on October 20, 2012, 12:46 PM

FWIW, my MG books (which have bioengineered mythological creatures) are called "science fantasy" or just "adventure." The MG audience really doesn't draw the distinction between sf and fantasy like adult audiences do.

Best,
Jenn

sounds interesting. What defines the chapter book / mg / ya boundaries? It's is both the structure, language, and mc age? My mc is ten, but so far I'm writing it how I feel it should be written and will try and conform It to one Of the categories later. It's following just one character in third person where instead of flashbacks I do some 'remembering'.

I'm currently reading The Search for Wandla to my 6 year old daughter. I guess I'm shooting for something that parets would want to read to thier 6 year olds and that maybe eightto ten year olds could read on their own.

Jaina · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2012, 10:14 AM »

It sounds like you are writing MG adventure, yes. As for the "what defines" question, there are some great books out there that you should probably get your hands on. One good comprehensive "writing for kids and seeking publication" guide is Harold Underdown's Complete Idiot's Guide to Publishing Children's Books. Harold is on this board and has a useful website, too!

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2012, 12:40 PM »

Thanks for the book recommendation. I've added a one chapter 'bonus' to the end of my story as the hook for the next part. It also let me both wrap up the story and leave it hanging.

I'm struggling a bit how much 'reintroduction' to put in. I'm adding a section where the mc is both exausted and proud of the events of part one. This let's me skim over the events of how she got to where she is (without going into crazy detail) With the last line of the first chapter (of part 2) being a harsh revelation that will test her new found confidence.

MichaelBlackbourn · « **Reply #29 on:** November 18, 2012, 10:03 PM »

Added a drawing from this project to my blog. It's fun to go back and use real pencils now and again.

http://www.cindercast.com/2012/11/quick-pencil-sketch.html

-Mike

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Author Topic: I'm working on sci-fi that will be perceived as fantasy (I think) (Read 1294 times)