Workshop Transcript

Revision- Your Key to Success

with Kate Johnston


Revision-Your Key to Success

Lawhee: Hi all. Is there a workshop tonight?

Verla: Yes, there is.

Verla: In two minutes ago, lawhee!

Verla: Yikes

Lawhee: LOL! I'm early

Katej: in two minutes ago? hmmm...

Lyra_: already a crowd!

Verla: Introduce yourself and let's get started, Kate.

Lyra_: So start already! (g)

*** Katej has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Revision - Your Key to Success (Workshop in session)

Katej: hi!

Katej: I'm Kate Johnston

Guest80785: Hi ya, Kate!

Katej: I'm a writer an editor

Katej: As an editor, I get writers to do a lot of revisions!

Katej: so...

Katej: first question I'm going to throw out at you:

Katej: Why rewrite?

Katej: anyone?

SallyA: to tighten

ClaraRose: perfect

Lawhee: to tighten

mkme3: to polish

Verla: Because rewriting makes your words better

A-Suen: to find the real story

Lawhee: first draft stinks

Verla: I vote for lawhee's!

whatever: because if you leave it the way it got down on paper in the FIRST place, it isn't as good as it could be.

Guest80785: Because I have many holes in first drafts!

A-Suen: to push to the next level, the next layer of meaning

Verla: Rewriting is ESSENTIAL to good writing

Katej: those are all good answers!

Katej: and when you do a rewrite, tighten, polish, unstink stinky drafts, etc, what does that DO to your writing?

Verla: Makes it smoother, better, more likely to sell

Lawhee: makes it better

Guest80785: It flows better.

A-Suen: it makes the meaning clearer

Katej: ok.

Katej: when we polish, make smoother, improve the flow, clear up the meaning, find the real story....

Katej: to me, the answer to "Why rewrite?" is to make one's writing invisible.

Verla: Invisible?

mkme3: no author intrusion

Lyra_: Verla rewrites to make her words "sing"

A-Suen: how can the words sing if they are invisible?

Guest80785: You forget about the words and just experience the story?

Lawhee: make the reader a part of the writing?

mkme3: the readers shouldn't think about the writer

Katej: to me, invisible writing means when I read, I'm not thinking about what the writer has written, I'm in what the story is

Katej: hmmm.. not sure I made that clear

Lyra_: I know what you mean, Kate

Verla: So that when someone reads it, they don't think, hmmm...that author said this or that...but they just enjoy the story or article?

Katej: Verla, yes!

A-Suen: This is what Gardner says when he talks about 'entering the dream"

whatever: it sucks you in and makes you part of it. you aren't reading about it, you're experiencing it

Verla: Ah...good way to put it, what!

Katej: when I read something, if my flow of thinking stops because of an unclear concept, the author has intruded upon my writing

whatever thinks kate meant "reading" there

Guest80785: My 8 year-old is now leaning over my shoulder reading this! (:)

Verla: I rewrite my stories zillions of times

NalanieSue: Zillions??!

A-Suen: it's the only way!

Lyra_: Verla just finished a book that she's been REWRITING for 3 years

Verla: yep. And only 219 words...but it took three years to get those words RIGHT

Lyra_: I rewrite as I write, then go through it a few more times once it's completed

Lawhee: I'm still wrestling with an ending to mine

DonnaSmith: How do you know when it's right?

A-Suen: it feels ready

SallyA: How do you know when to stop rewriting?

Verla: I know it's right when it literally "sings" to me, Donna

Katej: sally, good question.

Lawhee: when her crit group says so...heee, heee

NalanieSue: Can you re-write too much?

A-Suen: yes

Verla: Yes, you CAN

Katej: right. it IS possible

Verla: You can literally rewrite the life out of something.

A-Suen: sad, but true

Guest80785: I watch the Actor's Studio (Bravo) & listen to directors, etc. who talk about overwriting and how it can kill a good movie.

Lawhee: explain Kate

Katej: Lawhee, what are you asking me to explain?

Lawhee: re-writing too much

Katej: ok... we rewrite to polish, to make the meaning clearer... but the time comes when you have to STOP! enough, already!

Lawhee: or you lose your voice?

Katej: one can rewrite forever; the answer to how much rewriting is right is different for everyone

Verla: Practice helps you to see when it's time to stop

Katej: lawhee, I'd say you lose your audience!

NalanieSue: What's the average for everyone--times you've re-written

Lawhee: LOL!

NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud

Katej: Nal, it depends on what I'm working on.

A-Suen: yes, it depends on the piece

Verla: And every BOOK is different, too.

A-Suen: yes

Verla: I worked on my 219 words for three years, nalanie

Verla: But it was in rhyme...and that makes a BIG difference

DonnaSmith: Verla, do you write all your books in rhyme?

Verla: Only the ones that have sold, Donna. :-)

ClaraRose: hmm.... I seem to 'tweek' mine almost everytime I go into it... that is hard to number.

Lyra_: I usually only spend a few months on my mid-grade books, including rewriting

A-Suen: the book I sold in Feb took 8 years!

Guest80785: I've rewritten one picture book about 50+ times and it's still not ready

NalanieSue: Your stories must really change form at that many re-writes

Katej: 50+ times? why do you think it's not yet ready?

Guest80785: Doesn't flow.

Katej: ah... flow. good word. Flow is what I try to achieve in my writing.

ClaraRose: something tells you a certain section isn't quite done yet.

Katej: Flow is what I want to accomplish with rewriting.

Guest80785: Exactly.

Katej: I want my words to flow so the reader comes to the end, and suddenly is aware they are reading.

Lawhee: Good explaination Kate

Verla: Actually, I sometimes spend months looking for just ONE perfect word. A word that says exactly what I need it to. When you are writing a big saga story in 200+ words...every word has to carry a LOT of weight!

dorii: Most of my rewrites consist of cutting

A-Suen: Does the "concept" work? Does the "copy" work? They BOTH have to work before a story is ready

NalanieSue: have you ever felt that you cut too much Dori

dorii: Yes, Nalanie, I have

Katej: thanks, Lawhee. That is what I was trying to say earlier.

Katej: ok.. another question for you:

Katej: is rewriting over when the work is published?

Verla: NO!

dorii: probably not

A-Suen: sadly, no

ClaraRose: I don't know.....yet

A-Suen: the critics let you know what worked and what didn't

A-Suen: read the reviews!

Katej: Ann Brandt is an author who had her adult novel, Crowfoot Ridge, published by a small house.

Katej: it got bought out by Harper Collins, and she had to do MORE rewrites!

A-Suen: i believe it

Verla: I sold my first story...the editor said it was PERFECT just the way it was...and not a single word needed to be changed. THEN, it got to copy editing...and I ended up rewriting almost the entire story. Adding verses, deleting verses and changing verses.

NalanieSue: That's amazing

Lawhee: sounds grueling, V

DonnaSmith: I'd love to have that problem, Verla. :)

Verla: (It WAS fun, Donna!)

Lyra_: After the final proof-pages (or galleys) I'm DONE rewriting

A-Suen: they do ask for rewrites after they buy

dorii: A-Suen, did you have to rewrite Man on the Moon after it was accepted?

A-Suen: yes, I did

Guest80785: But, you can't please everyone, can you? My gosh, what famous person was it that said man's biggest urge was to rewrite someone else's words.

Katej: oh, that's a good one. I'd like to know who said that.

Katej: verla, did the copy editor change words, or didn't agree with you, or what?

Verla: The copy editor noticed that I had the Seasons wrong for my covered wagon story...had them starting AND ending in Springs...

Verla: But it was Spring to I had to scramble all my verses to make the seasons right. Then I had to rewrite a lot because the terrain was wrong...and then there were gaps in the smoothness of the story so I had to add verses, etc.

Katej: but you learned a lot from the experience, right, Verla?

Verla: I sure did, Kate! I learned to pay attention to details before submitting! To make my historical stories VERY historically accurate!

Katej: ok....

Katej: we've discussed WHY rewrite, how many rewrites, and when we are done...

Katej: what specifically is done in rewriting?

A-Suen: I rewrote the middle to make it tighter, and then they wanted back-matter. It took a week to write a single line there

A-Suen: it makes the book better, it makes it stronger

dorii: Is there a set formula for rewriting, Kate?

Katej: good question, Dori. what do you think?

dorii: Probably, no. Maybe guidelines... measures to hold up against your story, but each story is different

dorii: I mean, look over each thing separately... plot, characterization, etc.

mkme3: if there was a formula, anyone could do it


Katej: anyone else? set formula for rewriting?

Verla: Yes, there is a formula, Kate.

A-Suen: tell me!

Lawhee: do tell

mkme3: me too

Katej: you're on, Verla.. (lol!)

Verla: It's "WRITE." Then re-write over and over. Write some more. Keep going until your story finally feels absolutely RIGHT to you. To your GUT.

Lawhee: sheesh V! I thought you had THE secret

Verla: lol If there WAS a secret, lawhee...everyone would be published!

A-Suen: lol


Verla: Hmm. There ARE some secrets though.

Lawhee: I hear ya!

A-Suen: yes...

dorii: Even if there was a SECRET, the writer would have had to produce a worthwhile piece to begin with... and not everyone can do that

Verla: The three secrets to true success:

Guest80785: I'm all ears!

Verla: 1) Write the best story you can.

Verla: 2) Never tell everything you know.

Verla: 3)

Katej: 3) is not telling us what you know, Verla? <G>

DonnaSmith: explain #2

Verla: Right, kate


Lyra_: I know of one author (Peg Kehret) who goes back and cuts 3 words from each page, to tighten

Katej: oh. that's a good formula.


DonnaSmith: Do magazines usually require less rewrites after the story's bought?

Katej: There's an article in the July issue of Writer's Digest on Rewriting.

Katej: The author says there are six steps to "Powerful prose":

Katej: 1) "Use the first draft to build a solid foundation."

Katej: in other words, get that first draft written!

A-Suen: what about the concept? the structure of the story HAS to work first

A-Suen: first

Lawhee: I want Verla to explain #3

Verla: That's NOT telling everything I know, Lawhee...

Lawhee: It was over my head, Verla

Verla throws Lawhee a rope and pulls her up so her head is above water

DonnaSmith: what?

Guest80785: Did you mean leave some room for the reader to imagine?

Lawhee: Thanks, Verla. I'm slow tonite

dorii: I think she means you're only going to tell the info that moves the story along....

A-Suen: yes!

Guest80785: LOL (:)

Verla: #3 is YOUR creativity, folks. Your own imagination...

Verla: YOUR success

DonnaSmith: got it

Verla: Sorry, Kate..I think I got you a little off-track there...

Katej: lol. it was a GOOD off-track, though!

Katej: so back to this article, (which, btw, I don't totally agree with)

NOTE: btw = by the way

Verla: Six steps...One was building a good foundation

Katej: the author says the first of six steps, is building a solid foundation with the first draft

Katej: A-Suen commented the structure of the story has to work first

Verla: That makes sense to me, kate.

A-Suen: I HAVE to know the structure first, or I write in circles

Verla: You need a solid story line...that was one of my problems with the story I just wrote...I had an idea, but my story wasn't "concrete." It felt "weak" and not very exciting/interesting.

Katej: I find, personally, if I just write, even if I know it's all wrong, the ideas come to me

Katej: it is different for everyone

Katej: you do need to know what points you want to make

Verla: Yes, I think so, kate. Some people HAVE to outline first, others just write

A-Suen: I have to see the big picture first, before I start writing seriously

Verla: I usually know my beginning AND my ending before I start.

DonnaSmith: I sit down and what comes out is totally different from the idea i had.

Katej: the second step was "Discard irrelevant information."

Guest80785: Kate and others, how do you feel about outlines? I've tried it, but can't stick to them.

Verla: The middle I fill in as I go

dorii: Then what was next, Kate?

ClaraRose: structure is my favorite.. and I need it too in order to write.

Katej: Guest, I couldn't have gotten as far as I have on my adult novel without my outline.

Lyra_: I usually give myself a sketchy outline

A-Suen: the outline is the thinking part

Lawhee: irrelevent info like too much information about minor characters

Katej: but I think of an outline as a dynamic structure. it changes as my characters tell me what the REAL story is

A-Suen: I often change my outline

Verla: But I find I deviate a LOT from an outline. My story kind of mutates into whatever it wants to...but as long as I'm still headed for my ending, I let it go where it wants to.

Lyra_: I think of the outline as a map--keep me going in the right direction (and I am direction-deprived)

Guest80785: That makes me feel better!

Katej: my outline has been changed frequently.

Katej: in fact, I even changed the whole premise of my novel! If I hadn't had my outline, I wouldn't have been able to do it.

ClaraRose: it is like geometry... mathematical, it shape..

Lawhee: maybe that's why I have such trouble with endings.

Lyra_: I often know my exact ending early on

Harazin: my 1st draft is more of an outline than a 1st draft

Verla: I HAVE to know my ending...or I can't point myself in the right direction

Nchanted: I call my outline my "sequence doc". I note the sequence of event and include a section to remind myself of vocab and scenes I want to make sure to include. Then I write and fill it in.

A-Suen: you have to look at the arc of the story, too, and balance that out

Katej: some people write outlines on 5x7 cards, and post them on a wall

A-Suen: i do a storyboard

Lawhee: I tried it. It didn't work for me

dorii: I do it in my head

Katej: I think outlines are important, but everyone has their own way of doing an outline

ClaraRose: me too dori

Katej: so what is irrelevant information?

mkme3: whatever doesn't move story forward

Katej: Lawhee suggested too much info about minor characters

Katej: or too much info about major characters too

Katej: what about too much description?

ClaraRose: I don't know how you can 'move it along' without knowing where it is to move.

A-Suen: snip snip snip

Verla: irrelevant information is information that doesn't move the story forward, Kate. Stuff that might be interesting, but it doesn't move your characters towards solving their problems

Lawhee: right!

Katej: the author of the article suggested looking at prepositional phrases

Katej: do they move the ideas forward?

_MS_SASE: I have seen sentences where the prep phrases nested in one another like Russian dolls -- very confusing

A-Suen: poets look for imperfect rhyme - snip! out it goes

Verla: Everything has to COUNT in a child's book. If he needs to find a friend, then leave out that scene where he catches a big fish...unless it plays a part in helping him to reach his goal or showing his personality or some other "facts" that we need to know about him

Guest80785: That's me, Verla. A tangent" master in my pbs!

NOTE: pbs = Picture Books

Lawhee: I think the more complete a story is, the more you need an outline

Katej: the third step is "Concentrate on a lead that grabs the reader."

Katej: Personally, I disagree here.. my lead comes first in my articles!

Guest80785: Mine, too, Kate. But my real job is newspaper writing.

Verla: I agree, Lawhee! Complex stories definitely need more structure to help you get where you are going

Katej: Four: Eliminate needless words.

Lawhee: I use too many 'thats'

Verla: I think every story needs a "grabber" line in the first paragraph to pull the readers in and make them want to stay.

dorii: 'Four' is the tough one, Kate. Eliminate all those beautiful, well planned words

Lyra_: I go back and get rid of "that" and make passive sentences active

Katej: "that"s are good to look for. Also "There is", "there are", "it is"

Guest80785: This is a good reason why to leave let your work sit, no?

Katej: What about this sentence? The big purple round stippled ball rolled down the street.

Verla: Hmmm. The purple ball stippled its way down the street....

Verla: (I'm sorry. I was being silly...)

Katej: now, that's an interesting image, Verla.

Verla: But you COULD say, The big ball bounced down the street. Its purple stipples whirling around made Jody's head swim.

Lawhee: ball and round are redundant

Katej: yes, Dori.

Katej: and maybe "big" isn't important either...

Katej: unless the story demands the reader know the size of the ball

Katej: what does the reader need to know?

Lawhee: The purple ball rolled down the street

Katej: unless it was the size of a car! The ball, as big as my Honda, rolled down the street.

dorii: Or if it was a cobblestone street

ClaraRose: that also gives the illustrator some room to be creative.

A-Suen: it depends on the story problem

Guest80785: I think that depends on the type of writing.

Lyra_: If it's a picture book, you don't need the word "purple"--let artist do that

Katej: good point, Lyra. thanks.

Lawhee: BUT if you cut too many words, the story loses your unique voice. It's hard to know when to say when.

Guest80785: You want to convey an image.

dorii: I agree, Lawhee

Katej: The author of the article says, "Read your story aloud."

dorii: Anyone can write: "the ball rolled down the street"

Lawhee: Have someone else read it to you

Nchanted: Depends on the age of the audience. Might be important to let the reader see the word "purple".

Katej: even if it is a story not meant to be read aloud, ...

Lyra_: (I just looked up stipple in the dictionary--it IS a real word, not a typo!)

Verla: Yes, lyra. It means splotched

Verla: kind of

Guest80785: I knew that word from decorative painting.

Verla: I ALWAYS read my stories aloud!

Verla: Ask my husband. He has to listen to them. Over and over and over....for three years....the same 200 words...

Guest80785: LOL!

DonnaSmith: Poor guy! :)

Verla: He CELEBRATED when I sent Homespun Sarah off yesterday to my agent!

Katej: you DID send it off, Verla??? Hooray!!

Verla: Grin. yep. FINALLY.

DonnaSmith: I bet you celebrated, too!

Verla: I did, Donna

Verla: Grin. yep. FINALLY.

DonnaSmith: I bet you celebrated, too!

Verla: I did, Donna

Nchanted: I smell a book here, Verla.

Verla: Now, we wait for the acceptance or rejection letter...

Verla: So I can write it over again!

_MS_SASE: I find it even better to have someone else read it aloud

_MS_SASE: I can cover up a lot of crappy writing with a good read

Katej: what about: What about ... "The ball, as big as my Honda, rolled down the street. My son was playing on the next street."

Lawhee: That's the beginning of an interesting story Kate

dorii: What's next, Kate?

Katej: that's the point, lawhee.

Katej: the last one: "Use the final look for more than just spotting typos."

Katej: i.e. making sure the writing flows logically

Katej: eliminating passive writing

Verla: Hmmm. I always look for formatting errors in the final printouts, too. A paragraph that isn't indented the correct amount, etc.

Verla: Passive writing will KILL a story!

Guest80785: I find my first drafts are always passive, anyone else?

Katej: Guest, mine, too.

Verla: Mine are ROTTEN, guest

ClaraRose: they used to be passive... but not as much anymore.

Lawhee: mine are also passive

Katej: how do you find out what your weak points are?

Katej: so you can look for them in the rewrites?

Verla: I share my stories with other writers. They point out LOTS of errors that I never see.

Lyra_: critique groups and/or other writers' can help find weak areas

Katej: Verla, and Lyra, those were the answers I was looking for.

dorii: Verla and Lyra get an a+

InfoGranny: My first drafts lack dialog. Anyone else have that problem?

Lyra_: good! I get a point for being right.

Lyra_: My first drafts ARE dialog!

DonnaSmith: I usually have TOO much dialogue

Lawhee: Me too, Lyra!

Guest80785: I don't have enough dialogue, hence the passiveness!

Verla: I love dialogue.

DonnaSmith: Me, too, Verla

Lawhee: so do kids, V

Verla: POV (Point of View) is a big problem area with many new writers.

Katej: good, Verla.

Verla: They tend to drift from one person's head into another one's.

Nchanted: Yes, Verla. At what point/age can the reader easily handle more than one point of view?

Verla: I would say midgrade and up, enchanted

Nchanted: Agree.

Lyra_: I've been writing 2 viewpoints in my latest mid-grades

InfoGranny: Is it ok to stay with one POV beyond midgrade?

Verla: Yes, Granny

Nchanted: It's difficult to tell an intricate story using exclusively one point of view.

Verla: I'm using two viewpoints in a YA I'm doing, Nchanted. The two main characters alternate chapters as the story moves forward. So you see a part of it in her viewpoint, then the story continues in the next chapter from his viewpoint.


Katej: I think the point here is that each person will have their own particular weaknesses ... which need to be addressed in rewrites

Katej: my weaknesses are passive writing, and too many "that"s

Lawhee: so you need to know your weaknesses

Verla: I use WAY too many "that's" in first drafts

Guest80785: That's, there's, then's and but's in mine.

Verla: And BUT's and SO's

Lyra_: sure, Info

Lawhee: too many was's

Verla: And AND's, too

Lyra_: I have to watch out for "smiles" and "eyes"

Katej: I'm reading an excellent book, called, "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers", by Renni Browne and Dave King

Katej: subtitled , "How to Edit Yourself into Print"

dorii: I've read that one, too, Kate

InfoGranny: I just read the Renni Browne book and it is excellent.

Katej: Dori, I think it would be a good book for any writer. what do you think? fiction and non-fiction?

dorii: I agree, Kate. I'll read it again

InfoGranny: Browne's book helped me see the many mistakes I make.

dorii: It's not aimed at Children's writers, but applies to all writing

Katej: when I was reading it, I realized what the problem with my novel is! I now know what I will be working on in my seventh draft.


Katej: First realize I come from a viewpoint of writing for adults

DonnaSmith: Katej, is that a hard transition? Adult to children?

Verla: Yes, and writing for children, especially YOUNG children, is MUCH different.

Verla: You don't get to have the long descriptive passages in children's books that you can have in an adult book

Katej: Donna, I am currently working on an adult novel, and a picture story book.... what I am learning from both helps with both

Verla: You have to cut through the chaff and get right to the meat of the story

Guest80785: That's why I started a midgrade novel, the luxury of words over a children's story.

Verla: Expose the "core," if you will

Katej: but the need for good descriptions in the pb helps me with my writing in my novel

A-Suen: a picture book is a novel in miniature

Verla: I'm not sure about that, A-Suen...I tend to find writing a picture book is more "writing in pictures" than writing a novel.

A-Suen: yes, a pb IS writing in pictures, but it has to have all of the plot elements of a novel - the 3 acts, the good hook, etc

Verla: Right, A-Suen. I see what you mean. :-)

ClaraRose: I think sometimes, I tend to be a little on the 'lean' side... myself....

Katej: (of course, it could just be my teacher)

Guest80785: And who's your teacher?

Katej: uh, dare I mention the name?

Guest80785: YES!

Verla: LOL She is talking about me, guest, unless I am mistaken...

NalanieSue: Tell

Katej: it's Verla <G>

Guest80785: I should've known! (:)

Verla: OUCH! Our workshop hour is nearly up, Kate!

Verla: (These hours go way too fast.)

Guest80785: Not already!

Katej: yikes! the hour went FAST!

DonnaSmith: Any other books you recommend reading?

Katej: another book I recommend, because it addresses both fiction and non-fiction writing is:

Katej: "Stein on Writing" by Sol Stein

dorii: Kate, is the Stein book aimed at childrens' writers or adult?

Katej: dori, adult.

Katej: so, let me summarize

Katej: WHY rewrite: to make the writing invisible, so the reader FORGETS she is reading!

Katej: No set number of rewrites

Katej: No set time when rewriting is done; when it FEELS right, when it FLOWS

Katej: no set formula for success in writing

Katej: Find out your weak points; share your writing with other writers

Lyra_: success relies on hard-work, skill, and luck

Katej: Understand those weak points, so they can be worked on in rewrites

Katej: common areas needing rewrites: passive writing, too many "that"s, "there are"s, "there is"s, ...

-- Katej: what else?

DonnaSmith: Read it out loud

Katej: right, thanks, Donna.

Verla: And that you should STOP rewriting when you feel the story is right.

Verla: And send it off and start a new one.

Lawhee: Until an editor tells you that you need to re-write again

Katej: and maybe realize that sometimes it may never feel right.

RoxyanneY: I had a writing teacher tell me once that a story is never finished. It's just due.

Verla: Interesting thought, Roxyanne

Katej: I like that one, Roxyanne.

Guest80785: I forgot something: the reason I have so many rewrites on this one story is because I change one minor thing, then the whole thing needs to be changed. Any tips, besides NOT changing anything? (:)

Katej: guest, are you sure it's such a minor thing you're changing?

Guest80785: Well, guess I should rephrase. Anything in a 600 word pb is major, not minor.

Verla: Use your word processor's search function to help you find the places to make the changes?

Katej: good point, Lawhee. I'm nearing the end of my sixth draft of my adult novel, and I have learned so much!

Katej: and I think I'm in my eight rewrite of my picture story book.

RoxyanneY: I look at stuff I wrote a year ago and I think...sheesh, what neophite wrote that?

RoxyanneY: And I'm sure I'll say the same thing in a year or so about what I'm writing today.

RoxyanneY: It almost makes me want to put off the Great American Novel for a couple of years until I'm more

RoxyanneY: advanced, out of this apprenticeship phase.

Lawhee: but Rox, the voyage is just as important as the destination

RoxyanneY: Oh, absolutely. I agree completely. I've got a quote LeGuin in my

RoxyanneY: writing notebook: "It is good to have an end to journey toward, but it is the journey that matters in the end."

Verla: Ah...but I have found that when writing a story, Roxyanne...I have to FIRST write the garbage. And then the "music" will follow.

Lyra_: my favorite saying goes something like--you wouldn't expect a piano student to just sit down and play in a concert

RoxyanneY: Another good point, Verla.

RoxyanneY: It's just that sometimes I'm so in love with the garbage I'm writing I'm not patient enough to see that

Lawhee: the garbage is a great way to see how far you've come

RoxyanneY: it really could use some more percolating time before I'm tossing it off to editors.

A-Suen: the race is not to the swift...but to those who keep on running

RoxyanneY: this is one of my biggest problems.

Lawhee: guest, you should have someone else look at it

Guest80785: Lawhee, I have, a million times, it just confuses me all the more.

Lawhee: hee, hee. I am going through that myself, Guest

Guest80785: Maybe it's just one of those things that will someday click a few years down the road.

Suzy-Q: I save all my revisions and see how far I have grown through my revisions.

Verla: Me, too, SQ

A-Suen: I have PILES of revisions

Suzy-Q: I keep each story on one disk, each revision is marked as to where I started.

InfoGranny: I keep revisions, too.

RoxyanneY: I'm shopping for a new file cabinet now because my writing folders are overflowing.

Katej: remember, the writers who get published aren't necessary the best writers... they're the ones who persist and submit their writing.

Verla: YES, Kate!

A-Suen: yes! keep writing

Katej: does anyone have any suggestions for Guest?

Verla: I made one, kate. About using the word processor to help find the same phrases or things that need to be changed

Katej: thank you, Verla.

Verla: Oh...this workshop has to officially end, now...but anyone who wants to can still chat on about this.

A-Suen: thank you, kate!

Lawhee: yeah Kate. clap, clap, clap

Katej: thank you, all of you! this was great!

Guest80785: Thanks so much, Kate! I've learned a lot!

Katej: Guest, so did I.

NalanieSue: Great workshop

InfoGranny: Thank you, Kate

NalanieSue: Thank you

Verla: It was an EXCELLENT workshop, Kate. Thanks SO much!

Suzy-Q: Good job Katej!

ClaraRose: Excellent!

NalanieSue: Verla, will you post transcripts? I missed parts of this....putting kids to bed, taking dog out...

Suzy-Q: I need to get it too.

Verla: Yes, I will Nalanie...but it MIGHT be a little slow getting up because we leave tomorrow for my husband's surgery

Verla: Next week we have Adrianne from Australia leading our workshop

A-Suen: what time will it be in australia?

Verla: It will be 11am the next day for her, A-Suen

DonnaSmith: What's the topic?

Verla: The subject next week is Creating Exciting Non-Fiction

Katej: thank you everyone... thanks for coming and contributing...




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