Workshop Transcript
Revision- Your Key to Success
with Kate Johnston
Workshop Transcript
Revision- Your Key to Success
with Kate Johnston
Revision-Your Key to Success
Lawhee: Hi all. Is there a workshop tonight?
Verla: Yes, there is.
Verla: In two minutes ago, lawhee!
Verla: Yikes
Lawhee: LOL! I'm early
Katej: in two minutes ago? hmmm...
Lyra_: already a crowd!
Verla: Introduce yourself and let's get started, Kate.
Lyra_: So start already! (g)
*** Katej has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Revision - Your Key to Success (Workshop in session)
Katej: hi!
Katej: I'm Kate Johnston
Guest80785: Hi ya, Kate!
Katej: I'm a writer an editor
Katej: As an editor, I get writers to do a lot of revisions!
Katej: so...
Katej: first question I'm going to throw out at you:
Katej: Why rewrite?
Katej: anyone?
SallyA: to tighten
ClaraRose: perfect
Lawhee: to tighten
mkme3: to polish
Verla: Because rewriting makes your words better
A-Suen: to find the real story
Lawhee: first draft stinks
Verla: I vote for lawhee's!
whatever: because if you leave it the way it got down on paper in the FIRST place, it isn't as good as it could be.
Guest80785: Because I have many holes in first drafts!
A-Suen: to push to the next level, the next layer of meaning
Verla: Rewriting is ESSENTIAL to good writing
Katej: those are all good answers!
Katej: and when you do a rewrite, tighten, polish, unstink stinky drafts, etc, what does that DO to your writing?
Verla: Makes it smoother, better, more likely to sell
Lawhee: makes it better
Guest80785: It flows better.
A-Suen: it makes the meaning clearer
Katej: ok.
Katej: when we polish, make smoother, improve the flow, clear up the meaning, find the real story....
Katej: to me, the answer to "Why rewrite?" is to make one's writing invisible.
Verla: Invisible?
mkme3: no author intrusion
Lyra_: Verla rewrites to make her words "sing"
A-Suen: how can the words sing if they are invisible?
Guest80785: You forget about the words and just experience the story?
Lawhee: make the reader a part of the writing?
mkme3: the readers shouldn't think about the writer
Katej: to me, invisible writing means when I read, I'm not thinking about what the writer has written, I'm in what the story is
Katej: hmmm.. not sure I made that clear
Lyra_: I know what you mean, Kate
Verla: So that when someone reads it, they don't think, hmmm...that author said this or that...but they just enjoy the story or article?
Katej: Verla, yes!
A-Suen: This is what Gardner says when he talks about 'entering the dream"
whatever: it sucks you in and makes you part of it. you aren't reading about it, you're experiencing it
Verla: Ah...good way to put it, what!
Katej: when I read something, if my flow of thinking stops because of an unclear concept, the author has intruded upon my writing
whatever thinks kate meant "reading" there
Guest80785: My 8 year-old is now leaning over my shoulder reading this! (:)
Verla: I rewrite my stories zillions of times
NalanieSue: Zillions??!
A-Suen: it's the only way!
Lyra_: Verla just finished a book that she's been REWRITING for 3 years
Verla: yep. And only 219 words...but it took three years to get those words RIGHT
Lyra_: I rewrite as I write, then go through it a few more times once it's completed
Lawhee: I'm still wrestling with an ending to mine
DonnaSmith: How do you know when it's right?
A-Suen: it feels ready
SallyA: How do you know when to stop rewriting?
Verla: I know it's right when it literally "sings" to me, Donna
Katej: sally, good question.
Lawhee: when her crit group says so...heee, heee
NalanieSue: Can you re-write too much?
A-Suen: yes
Verla: Yes, you CAN
Katej: right. it IS possible
Verla: You can literally rewrite the life out of something.
A-Suen: sad, but true
Guest80785: I watch the Actor's Studio (Bravo) & listen to directors, etc. who talk about overwriting and how it can kill a good movie.
Lawhee: explain Kate
Katej: Lawhee, what are you asking me to explain?
Lawhee: re-writing too much
Katej: ok... we rewrite to polish, to make the meaning clearer... but the time comes when you have to STOP! enough, already!
Lawhee: or you lose your voice?
Katej: one can rewrite forever; the answer to how much rewriting is right is different for everyone
Verla: Practice helps you to see when it's time to stop
Katej: lawhee, I'd say you lose your audience!
NalanieSue: What's the average for everyone--times you've re-written
Lawhee: LOL!
NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud
Katej: Nal, it depends on what I'm working on.
A-Suen: yes, it depends on the piece
Verla: And every BOOK is different, too.
A-Suen: yes
Verla: I worked on my 219 words for three years, nalanie
Verla: But it was in rhyme...and that makes a BIG difference
DonnaSmith: Verla, do you write all your books in rhyme?
Verla: Only the ones that have sold, Donna. :-)
ClaraRose: hmm.... I seem to 'tweek' mine almost everytime I go into it... that is hard to number.
Lyra_: I usually only spend a few months on my mid-grade books, including rewriting
A-Suen: the book I sold in Feb took 8 years!
Guest80785: I've rewritten one picture book about 50+ times and it's still not ready
NalanieSue: Your stories must really change form at that many re-writes
Katej: 50+ times? why do you think it's not yet ready?
Guest80785: Doesn't flow.
Katej: ah... flow. good word. Flow is what I try to achieve in my writing.
ClaraRose: something tells you a certain section isn't quite done yet.
Katej: Flow is what I want to accomplish with rewriting.
Guest80785: Exactly.
Katej: I want my words to flow so the reader comes to the end, and suddenly is aware they are reading.
Lawhee: Good explaination Kate
Verla: Actually, I sometimes spend months looking for just ONE perfect word. A word that says exactly what I need it to. When you are writing a big saga story in 200+ words...every word has to carry a LOT of weight!
dorii: Most of my rewrites consist of cutting
A-Suen: Does the "concept" work? Does the "copy" work? They BOTH have to work before a story is ready
NalanieSue: have you ever felt that you cut too much Dori
dorii: Yes, Nalanie, I have
Katej: thanks, Lawhee. That is what I was trying to say earlier.
Katej: ok.. another question for you:
Katej: is rewriting over when the work is published?
Verla: NO!
dorii: probably not
A-Suen: sadly, no
ClaraRose: I don't know.....yet
A-Suen: the critics let you know what worked and what didn't
A-Suen: read the reviews!
Katej: Ann Brandt is an author who had her adult novel, Crowfoot Ridge, published by a small house.
Katej: it got bought out by Harper Collins, and she had to do MORE rewrites!
A-Suen: i believe it
Verla: I sold my first story...the editor said it was PERFECT just the way it was...and not a single word needed to be changed. THEN, it got to copy editing...and I ended up rewriting almost the entire story. Adding verses, deleting verses and changing verses.
NalanieSue: That's amazing
Lawhee: sounds grueling, V
DonnaSmith: I'd love to have that problem, Verla. :)
Verla: (It WAS fun, Donna!)
Lyra_: After the final proof-pages (or galleys) I'm DONE rewriting
A-Suen: they do ask for rewrites after they buy
dorii: A-Suen, did you have to rewrite Man on the Moon after it was accepted?
A-Suen: yes, I did
Guest80785: But, you can't please everyone, can you? My gosh, what famous person was it that said man's biggest urge was to rewrite someone else's words.
Katej: oh, that's a good one. I'd like to know who said that.
Katej: verla, did the copy editor change words, or didn't agree with you, or what?
Verla: The copy editor noticed that I had the Seasons wrong for my covered wagon story...had them starting AND ending in Springs...
Verla: But it was Spring to Fall...so I had to scramble all my verses to make the seasons right. Then I had to rewrite a lot because the terrain was wrong...and then there were gaps in the smoothness of the story so I had to add verses, etc.
Katej: but you learned a lot from the experience, right, Verla?
Verla: I sure did, Kate! I learned to pay attention to details before submitting! To make my historical stories VERY historically accurate!
Katej: ok....
Katej: we've discussed WHY rewrite, how many rewrites, and when we are done...
Katej: what specifically is done in rewriting?
A-Suen: I rewrote the middle to make it tighter, and then they wanted back-matter. It took a week to write a single line there
A-Suen: it makes the book better, it makes it stronger
dorii: Is there a set formula for rewriting, Kate?
Katej: good question, Dori. what do you think?
dorii: Probably, no. Maybe guidelines... measures to hold up against your story, but each story is different
dorii: I mean, look over each thing separately... plot, characterization, etc.
mkme3: if there was a formula, anyone could do it
Katej: anyone else? set formula for rewriting?
Verla: Yes, there is a formula, Kate.
A-Suen: tell me!
Lawhee: do tell
mkme3: me too
Katej: you're on, Verla.. (lol!)
Verla: It's "WRITE." Then re-write over and over. Write some more. Keep going until your story finally feels absolutely RIGHT to you. To your GUT.
Lawhee: sheesh V! I thought you had THE secret
Verla: lol If there WAS a secret, lawhee...everyone would be published!
A-Suen: lol
Verla: Hmm. There ARE some secrets though.
Lawhee: I hear ya!
A-Suen: yes...
dorii: Even if there was a SECRET, the writer would have had to produce a worthwhile piece to begin with... and not everyone can do that
Verla: The three secrets to true success:
Guest80785: I'm all ears!
Verla: 1) Write the best story you can.
Verla: 2) Never tell everything you know.
Verla: 3)
Katej: 3) is not telling us what you know, Verla? <G>
DonnaSmith: explain #2
Verla: Right, kate
Lyra_: I know of one author (Peg Kehret) who goes back and cuts 3 words from each page, to tighten
Katej: oh. that's a good formula.
DonnaSmith: Do magazines usually require less rewrites after the story's bought?
Katej: There's an article in the July issue of Writer's Digest on Rewriting.
Katej: The author says there are six steps to "Powerful prose":
Katej: 1) "Use the first draft to build a solid foundation."
Katej: in other words, get that first draft written!
A-Suen: what about the concept? the structure of the story HAS to work first
A-Suen: first
Lawhee: I want Verla to explain #3
Verla: That's NOT telling everything I know, Lawhee...
Lawhee: It was over my head, Verla
Verla throws Lawhee a rope and pulls her up so her head is above water
DonnaSmith: what?
Guest80785: Did you mean leave some room for the reader to imagine?
Lawhee: Thanks, Verla. I'm slow tonite
dorii: I think she means you're only going to tell the info that moves the story along....
A-Suen: yes!
Guest80785: LOL (:)
Verla: #3 is YOUR creativity, folks. Your own imagination...
Verla: YOUR success
DonnaSmith: got it
Verla: Sorry, Kate..I think I got you a little off-track there...
Katej: lol. it was a GOOD off-track, though!
Katej: so back to this article, (which, btw, I don't totally agree with)
NOTE: btw = by the way
Verla: Six steps...One was building a good foundation
Katej: the author says the first of six steps, is building a solid foundation with the first draft
Katej: A-Suen commented the structure of the story has to work first
Verla: That makes sense to me, kate.
A-Suen: I HAVE to know the structure first, or I write in circles
Verla: You need a solid story line...that was one of my problems with the story I just wrote...I had an idea, but my story wasn't "concrete." It felt "weak" and not very exciting/interesting.
Katej: I find, personally, if I just write, even if I know it's all wrong, the ideas come to me
Katej: it is different for everyone
Katej: you do need to know what points you want to make
Verla: Yes, I think so, kate. Some people HAVE to outline first, others just write
A-Suen: I have to see the big picture first, before I start writing seriously
Verla: I usually know my beginning AND my ending before I start.
DonnaSmith: I sit down and what comes out is totally different from the idea i had.
Katej: the second step was "Discard irrelevant information."
Guest80785: Kate and others, how do you feel about outlines? I've tried it, but can't stick to them.
Verla: The middle I fill in as I go
dorii: Then what was next, Kate?
ClaraRose: structure is my favorite.. and I need it too in order to write.
Katej: Guest, I couldn't have gotten as far as I have on my adult novel without my outline.
Lyra_: I usually give myself a sketchy outline
A-Suen: the outline is the thinking part
Lawhee: irrelevent info like too much information about minor characters
Katej: but I think of an outline as a dynamic structure. it changes as my characters tell me what the REAL story is
A-Suen: I often change my outline
Verla: But I find I deviate a LOT from an outline. My story kind of mutates into whatever it wants to...but as long as I'm still headed for my ending, I let it go where it wants to.
Lyra_: I think of the outline as a map--keep me going in the right direction (and I am direction-deprived)
Guest80785: That makes me feel better!
Katej: my outline has been changed frequently.
Katej: in fact, I even changed the whole premise of my novel! If I hadn't had my outline, I wouldn't have been able to do it.
ClaraRose: it is like geometry... mathematical, symetrical...gives it shape..
Lawhee: maybe that's why I have such trouble with endings.
Lyra_: I often know my exact ending early on
Harazin: my 1st draft is more of an outline than a 1st draft
Verla: I HAVE to know my ending...or I can't point myself in the right direction
Nchanted: I call my outline my "sequence doc". I note the sequence of event and include a section to remind myself of vocab and scenes I want to make sure to include. Then I write and fill it in.
A-Suen: you have to look at the arc of the story, too, and balance that out
Katej: some people write outlines on 5x7 cards, and post them on a wall
A-Suen: i do a storyboard
Lawhee: I tried it. It didn't work for me
dorii: I do it in my head
Katej: I think outlines are important, but everyone has their own way of doing an outline
ClaraRose: me too dori
Katej: so what is irrelevant information?
mkme3: whatever doesn't move story forward
Katej: Lawhee suggested too much info about minor characters
Katej: or too much info about major characters too
Katej: what about too much description?
ClaraRose: I don't know how you can 'move it along' without knowing where it is to move.
A-Suen: snip snip snip
Verla: irrelevant information is information that doesn't move the story forward, Kate. Stuff that might be interesting, but it doesn't move your characters towards solving their problems
Lawhee: right!
Katej: the author of the article suggested looking at prepositional phrases
Katej: do they move the ideas forward?
_MS_SASE: I have seen sentences where the prep phrases nested in one another like Russian dolls -- very confusing
A-Suen: poets look for imperfect rhyme - snip! out it goes
Verla: Everything has to COUNT in a child's book. If he needs to find a friend, then leave out that scene where he catches a big fish...unless it plays a part in helping him to reach his goal or showing his personality or some other "facts" that we need to know about him
Guest80785: That's me, Verla. A tangent" master in my pbs!
NOTE: pbs = Picture Books
Lawhee: I think the more complete a story is, the more you need an outline
Katej: the third step is "Concentrate on a lead that grabs the reader."
Katej: Personally, I disagree here.. my lead comes first in my articles!
Guest80785: Mine, too, Kate. But my real job is newspaper writing.
Verla: I agree, Lawhee! Complex stories definitely need more structure to help you get where you are going
Katej: Four: Eliminate needless words.
Lawhee: I use too many 'thats'
Verla: I think every story needs a "grabber" line in the first paragraph to pull the readers in and make them want to stay.
dorii: 'Four' is the tough one, Kate. Eliminate all those beautiful, well planned words
Lyra_: I go back and get rid of "that" and make passive sentences active
Katej: "that"s are good to look for. Also "There is", "there are", "it is"
Guest80785: This is a good reason why to leave let your work sit, no?
Katej: What about this sentence? The big purple round stippled ball rolled down the street.
Verla: Hmmm. The purple ball stippled its way down the street....
Verla: (I'm sorry. I was being silly...)
Katej: now, that's an interesting image, Verla.
Verla: But you COULD say, The big ball bounced down the street. Its purple stipples whirling around made Jody's head swim.
Lawhee: ball and round are redundant
Katej: yes, Dori.
Katej: and maybe "big" isn't important either...
Katej: unless the story demands the reader know the size of the ball
Katej: what does the reader need to know?
Lawhee: The purple ball rolled down the street
Katej: unless it was the size of a car! The ball, as big as my Honda, rolled down the street.
dorii: Or if it was a cobblestone street
ClaraRose: that also gives the illustrator some room to be creative.
A-Suen: it depends on the story problem
Guest80785: I think that depends on the type of writing.
Lyra_: If it's a picture book, you don't need the word "purple"--let artist do that
Katej: good point, Lyra. thanks.
Lawhee: BUT if you cut too many words, the story loses your unique voice. It's hard to know when to say when.
Guest80785: You want to convey an image.
dorii: I agree, Lawhee
Katej: The author of the article says, "Read your story aloud."
dorii: Anyone can write: "the ball rolled down the street"
Lawhee: Have someone else read it to you
Nchanted: Depends on the age of the audience. Might be important to let the reader see the word "purple".
Katej: even if it is a story not meant to be read aloud, ...
Lyra_: (I just looked up stipple in the dictionary--it IS a real word, not a typo!)
Verla: Yes, lyra. It means splotched
Verla: kind of
Guest80785: I knew that word from decorative painting.
Verla: I ALWAYS read my stories aloud!
Verla: Ask my husband. He has to listen to them. Over and over and over....for three years....the same 200 words...
Guest80785: LOL!
DonnaSmith: Poor guy! :)
Verla: He CELEBRATED when I sent Homespun Sarah off yesterday to my agent!
Katej: you DID send it off, Verla??? Hooray!!
Verla: Grin. yep. FINALLY.
DonnaSmith: I bet you celebrated, too!
Verla: I did, Donna
Verla: Grin. yep. FINALLY.
DonnaSmith: I bet you celebrated, too!
Verla: I did, Donna
Nchanted: I smell a book here, Verla.
Verla: Now, we wait for the acceptance or rejection letter...
Verla: So I can write it over again!
_MS_SASE: I find it even better to have someone else read it aloud
_MS_SASE: I can cover up a lot of crappy writing with a good read
Katej: what about: What about ... "The ball, as big as my Honda, rolled down the street. My son was playing on the next street."
Lawhee: That's the beginning of an interesting story Kate
dorii: What's next, Kate?
Katej: that's the point, lawhee.
Katej: the last one: "Use the final look for more than just spotting typos."
Katej: i.e. making sure the writing flows logically
Katej: eliminating passive writing
Verla: Hmmm. I always look for formatting errors in the final printouts, too. A paragraph that isn't indented the correct amount, etc.
Verla: Passive writing will KILL a story!
Guest80785: I find my first drafts are always passive, anyone else?
Katej: Guest, mine, too.
Verla: Mine are ROTTEN, guest
ClaraRose: they used to be passive... but not as much anymore.
Lawhee: mine are also passive
Katej: how do you find out what your weak points are?
Katej: so you can look for them in the rewrites?
Verla: I share my stories with other writers. They point out LOTS of errors that I never see.
Lyra_: critique groups and/or other writers' can help find weak areas
Katej: Verla, and Lyra, those were the answers I was looking for.
dorii: Verla and Lyra get an a+
InfoGranny: My first drafts lack dialog. Anyone else have that problem?
Lyra_: good! I get a point for being right.
Lyra_: My first drafts ARE dialog!
DonnaSmith: I usually have TOO much dialogue
Lawhee: Me too, Lyra!
Guest80785: I don't have enough dialogue, hence the passiveness!
Verla: I love dialogue.
DonnaSmith: Me, too, Verla
Lawhee: so do kids, V
Verla: POV (Point of View) is a big problem area with many new writers.
Katej: good, Verla.
Verla: They tend to drift from one person's head into another one's.
Nchanted: Yes, Verla. At what point/age can the reader easily handle more than one point of view?
Verla: I would say midgrade and up, enchanted
Nchanted: Agree.
Lyra_: I've been writing 2 viewpoints in my latest mid-grades
InfoGranny: Is it ok to stay with one POV beyond midgrade?
Verla: Yes, Granny
Nchanted: It's difficult to tell an intricate story using exclusively one point of view.
Verla: I'm using two viewpoints in a YA I'm doing, Nchanted. The two main characters alternate chapters as the story moves forward. So you see a part of it in her viewpoint, then the story continues in the next chapter from his viewpoint.
Katej: I think the point here is that each person will have their own particular weaknesses ... which need to be addressed in rewrites
Katej: my weaknesses are passive writing, and too many "that"s
Lawhee: so you need to know your weaknesses
Verla: I use WAY too many "that's" in first drafts
Guest80785: That's, there's, then's and but's in mine.
Verla: And BUT's and SO's
Lyra_: sure, Info
Lawhee: too many was's
Verla: And AND's, too
Lyra_: I have to watch out for "smiles" and "eyes"
Katej: I'm reading an excellent book, called, "Self-Editing for Fiction Writers", by Renni Browne and Dave King
Katej: subtitled , "How to Edit Yourself into Print"
dorii: I've read that one, too, Kate
InfoGranny: I just read the Renni Browne book and it is excellent.
Katej: Dori, I think it would be a good book for any writer. what do you think? fiction and non-fiction?
dorii: I agree, Kate. I'll read it again
InfoGranny: Browne's book helped me see the many mistakes I make.
dorii: It's not aimed at Children's writers, but applies to all writing
Katej: when I was reading it, I realized what the problem with my novel is! I now know what I will be working on in my seventh draft.
Katej: First realize I come from a viewpoint of writing for adults
DonnaSmith: Katej, is that a hard transition? Adult to children?
Verla: Yes, and writing for children, especially YOUNG children, is MUCH different.
Verla: You don't get to have the long descriptive passages in children's books that you can have in an adult book
Katej: Donna, I am currently working on an adult novel, and a picture story book.... what I am learning from both helps with both
Verla: You have to cut through the chaff and get right to the meat of the story
Guest80785: That's why I started a midgrade novel, the luxury of words over a children's story.
Verla: Expose the "core," if you will
Katej: but the need for good descriptions in the pb helps me with my writing in my novel
A-Suen: a picture book is a novel in miniature
Verla: I'm not sure about that, A-Suen...I tend to find writing a picture book is more "writing in pictures" than writing a novel.
A-Suen: yes, a pb IS writing in pictures, but it has to have all of the plot elements of a novel - the 3 acts, the good hook, etc
Verla: Right, A-Suen. I see what you mean. :-)
ClaraRose: I think sometimes, I tend to be a little on the 'lean' side... myself....
Katej: (of course, it could just be my teacher)
Guest80785: And who's your teacher?
Katej: uh, dare I mention the name?
Guest80785: YES!
Verla: LOL She is talking about me, guest, unless I am mistaken...
NalanieSue: Tell
Katej: it's Verla <G>
Guest80785: I should've known! (:)
Verla: OUCH! Our workshop hour is nearly up, Kate!
Verla: (These hours go way too fast.)
Guest80785: Not already!
Katej: yikes! the hour went FAST!
DonnaSmith: Any other books you recommend reading?
Katej: another book I recommend, because it addresses both fiction and non-fiction writing is:
Katej: "Stein on Writing" by Sol Stein
dorii: Kate, is the Stein book aimed at childrens' writers or adult?
Katej: dori, adult.
Katej: so, let me summarize
Katej: WHY rewrite: to make the writing invisible, so the reader FORGETS she is reading!
Katej: No set number of rewrites
Katej: No set time when rewriting is done; when it FEELS right, when it FLOWS
Katej: no set formula for success in writing
Katej: Find out your weak points; share your writing with other writers
Lyra_: success relies on hard-work, skill, and luck
Katej: Understand those weak points, so they can be worked on in rewrites
Katej: common areas needing rewrites: passive writing, too many "that"s, "there are"s, "there is"s, ...
-- Katej: what else?
DonnaSmith: Read it out loud
Katej: right, thanks, Donna.
Verla: And that you should STOP rewriting when you feel the story is right.
Verla: And send it off and start a new one.
Lawhee: Until an editor tells you that you need to re-write again
Katej: and maybe realize that sometimes it may never feel right.
RoxyanneY: I had a writing teacher tell me once that a story is never finished. It's just due.
Verla: Interesting thought, Roxyanne
Katej: I like that one, Roxyanne.
Guest80785: I forgot something: the reason I have so many rewrites on this one story is because I change one minor thing, then the whole thing needs to be changed. Any tips, besides NOT changing anything? (:)
Katej: guest, are you sure it's such a minor thing you're changing?
Guest80785: Well, guess I should rephrase. Anything in a 600 word pb is major, not minor.
Verla: Use your word processor's search function to help you find the places to make the changes?
Katej: good point, Lawhee. I'm nearing the end of my sixth draft of my adult novel, and I have learned so much!
Katej: and I think I'm in my eight rewrite of my picture story book.
RoxyanneY: I look at stuff I wrote a year ago and I think...sheesh, what neophite wrote that?
RoxyanneY: And I'm sure I'll say the same thing in a year or so about what I'm writing today.
RoxyanneY: It almost makes me want to put off the Great American Novel for a couple of years until I'm more
RoxyanneY: advanced, out of this apprenticeship phase.
Lawhee: but Rox, the voyage is just as important as the destination
RoxyanneY: Oh, absolutely. I agree completely. I've got a quote from....um...Ursula LeGuin in my
RoxyanneY: writing notebook: "It is good to have an end to journey toward, but it is the journey that matters in the end."
Verla: Ah...but I have found that when writing a story, Roxyanne...I have to FIRST write the garbage. And then the "music" will follow.
Lyra_: my favorite saying goes something like--you wouldn't expect a piano student to just sit down and play in a concert
RoxyanneY: Another good point, Verla.
RoxyanneY: It's just that sometimes I'm so in love with the garbage I'm writing I'm not patient enough to see that
Lawhee: the garbage is a great way to see how far you've come
RoxyanneY: it really could use some more percolating time before I'm tossing it off to editors.
A-Suen: the race is not to the swift...but to those who keep on running
RoxyanneY: this is one of my biggest problems.
Lawhee: guest, you should have someone else look at it
Guest80785: Lawhee, I have, a million times, it just confuses me all the more.
Lawhee: hee, hee. I am going through that myself, Guest
Guest80785: Maybe it's just one of those things that will someday click a few years down the road.
Suzy-Q: I save all my revisions and see how far I have grown through my revisions.
Verla: Me, too, SQ
A-Suen: I have PILES of revisions
Suzy-Q: I keep each story on one disk, each revision is marked as to where I started.
InfoGranny: I keep revisions, too.
RoxyanneY: I'm shopping for a new file cabinet now because my writing folders are overflowing.
Katej: remember, the writers who get published aren't necessary the best writers... they're the ones who persist and submit their writing.
Verla: YES, Kate!
A-Suen: yes! keep writing
Katej: does anyone have any suggestions for Guest?
Verla: I made one, kate. About using the word processor to help find the same phrases or things that need to be changed
Katej: thank you, Verla.
Verla: Oh...this workshop has to officially end, now...but anyone who wants to can still chat on about this.
A-Suen: thank you, kate!
Lawhee: yeah Kate. clap, clap, clap
Katej: thank you, all of you! this was great!
Guest80785: Thanks so much, Kate! I've learned a lot!
Katej: Guest, so did I.
NalanieSue: Great workshop
InfoGranny: Thank you, Kate
NalanieSue: Thank you
Verla: It was an EXCELLENT workshop, Kate. Thanks SO much!
Suzy-Q: Good job Katej!
ClaraRose: Excellent!
NalanieSue: Verla, will you post transcripts? I missed parts of this....putting kids to bed, taking dog out...
Suzy-Q: I need to get it too.
Verla: Yes, I will Nalanie...but it MIGHT be a little slow getting up because we leave tomorrow for my husband's surgery
Verla: Next week we have Adrianne from Australia leading our workshop
A-Suen: what time will it be in australia?
Verla: It will be 11am the next day for her, A-Suen
DonnaSmith: What's the topic?
Verla: The subject next week is Creating Exciting Non-Fiction
Katej: thank you everyone... thanks for coming and contributing...
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