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Workshop Transcript

Effective Critique Groups

with Linda R. Rymill (aka Lindy)

  Verla: Hooray! Lindy is here...and she's all dressed up, too!

lindy: I have my bunny slippers on, though. Do I have to change them?

Verla: Nah. Leave them on, lindy. They're cute.

lindy: Okey doke. Who wants to talk about effective critique groups?

Suzy-Q waves her hands wildly.

Verla: Hey everyone. It is now time for the workshop to begin

Suzy-Q sits between Dori and Karma

Verla: I want to sit next to sq!

Karma pouts.

dori: lol

Karma: Go ahead Lindy!

Karma: You're the boss.

Verla pushes in between karma and sq

Verla: Sorry, lindy.

Suzy-Q: you can sit behind me to make me behave Verla

Verla: Good.

Karma moves chair over.

Lyra_: Verla NEVER behaves!

Suzy-Q: Sorry Lindy

Verla: shhhhh

*** Verla has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Effective Critique Groups Workshop in Session

 

lindy: this is going to be a pick-your-brain workshop

dori: Sounds good, lindy

Verla: Lindy, why don't you introduce yourself and then get started?

lindy: Couldn't we just go on the assumption that everyone knows me?

lindy: or soon will?

lindy: <g>

Verla: No.

lindy: oh fine.

lindy: hello

lindy: I'm lindy

dori: Verla, introduce Lindy

Verla: Please meet Linda R. Rymill. Regional Advisor for Michigan and author of the wonderful new picture book, Good Knight

lindy: (bowing)

Suzy-Q: Yeah Lindy......

dori: applause, applause

Lyra_: yeah, lindy

lindy: oh thank you

lindy: but YOU are really the stars here

Suzy-Q holds up banner..... "We LOVE you Lindy"

lindy: (SQ, really, you're embarrassing me...)

Verla: (It's the bunny slippers, lindy. You don't "get no respect" on the podium wearing Bunny slippers.)

Suzy-Q: sorry

lindy: You are the writers, the struggleser, the critiquers!

Karma: YES

 

lindy: If we could design the Perfect Crit group, what would it be?

dori: Ahhhh... the perfect group?

Karma: Jane Yolen, Maurice Sendak, and Kevin Henkes...

Karma: And me.

lindy: lol

Karma: :)

 

lindy: How many of you now belong to a real life critique group?

Karma: Live or virtual?

dori: not me

lindy: live

Karma: Not me.

Suzy-Q: nope not me.

Verla: I have...

Lyra_: I doubt I'll be in a live group again--email has changed my needs

lindy: What would you all like to receive from your critique group?

lindy: (and none of your members can offer you a contracts...)

Karma: Honesty.

Suzy-Q: Constructive critisim about my writing.

Karma: It's the brutal honesty that has made me a better writer.

Holly: Honest crits

dori: Honest crits, but also good insights, ideas, a sense of what works and what doesn't

Verla: Gems of wisdom that will make my manuscripts saleable.

 

lindy: Do any of you tell your fellow memberrs before you present your work, what you are looking for?

Karma: Sometimes...if I know.

Suzy-Q: Sometimes

Verla: Sometimes...when I feel a real lack of something in my work.

dori: I often don't KNOW what I'm looking for

lindy: I think it's important to value everyone's input when critiqueing

Verla: I also look for SOME encouragement

Karma: Encouragement is always helpful.

Lyra_: I used to ask for specific areas of critique

lindy: Lyra, like what?

Lyra_: If I felt a beginning or maybe ending wasn't strong, I'd ask about that. Or in one case I had a hero who came across too unlikeable, and needed that criticism.

 

lindy: What are the important things to cover in a critique?

Verla: In giving one, lindy?

lindy: yes

Suzy-Q: flow of words

Karma: Solid plot, strong characterization, unique slant.

Sally1: Pointing out anything that might not be clear to the listener.

Verla: First: I point out the GOOD stuff in the person's work. Then, I try to hit the worst problems and give suggestions on how they might work better for me.

lindy: Very true, Verla, good stuff before bad stuff.

lindy: AND THERE ALWAYS IS SOMETHING GOOD

Suzy-Q: It depends sometimes who is doing the crit.....

Verla: Yep. Even if it's only the IDEA of the story that is good...or a certain phrase of word...you can always find SOMETHING good.

 

lindy: what if someone reads a VERY rough first draft.... what whould we look for?

Suzy-Q: Will this story work?

lindy: Good SQ!

dori: If someone submitted a very rough first draft, I think I would first look at the structure of the plot...

Sally1: Does it move at a good pace?

Verla: Does the "story" work? Is it way too long? Are there giant gaps in the story line?

dori: Does it have appeal?

Suzy-Q: How can the story be better?

 

lindy: What do good crit groups share?

Suzy-Q: they knock around idea's of what works and what doesn't work.

Lyra_: I was in a weekly critique group for 8 years and we all had different areas of strength for critiquing

Verla: We have brainstormed stories for each of us in my group.

lindy: true. I think everyone must have equal consideration for everyone's manuscript

lindy: equal time, equal thought

lindy: Lyra that's really true

lindy: I think as a crit group progresses one might be the grammar queen, one the plot, one the trimmer...

Lyra_: I was always strongest on plotting

lindy: But I think it's important to share how the overall story works--before critiquing it to death

 

Verla: We also always made sure each of us remembered that the suggestions given during critiques were just that. SUGGESTIONS. The story must ALWAYS first belong to the author and she/he should only take those suggestions that REALLY feel right and use them.

 

 

Suzy-Q: What if you feel you are no good at criting?

lindy: Everyone can become good at critiquing

lindy: One learns by doing

lindy: and listening

Lyra_: My very first critique group (they later teased) that I

didn't say anything for weeks, until I felt comfortable

Lyra_: With experience and by listening you learn how to critique

lindy: But different people come to crit groups with different expectations

Verla: Of course, if six people are telling you that one line doesn't work, then you might want to seriously consider whether your opinion of that line is correct if you were determined to keep it unchanged.

lindy: That's why joining a new to you group can sometimes be difficult

Karma: At different points in a writers growth, they expect different things also, I've noted.

Karma: In the beginning you need so much reassurance.

dori: I think you also need to continually learn about the craft of writing, such as through reading, etc, and then you have more tools to work with

lindy: Excellent point, Karma. Expand that

Karma: Me?

 

 

Verla: How important do you think it is to have the majority of people in the group writing the same kinds of stories, Lindy?

lindy: I think it is extremely helpful

lindy: Or at least if they all have written that type of story

Lyra_: I was in a group where only one other person wrote kids' books

lindy: Me too.

Karma: Lyra, that could be hard.

Lyra_: They were helpful, but I had to explain things first sometimes

Verla: I've noticed that people who write a lot of rhyme can do good critiques of rhyme, but that someone that doesn't ever write it, has a very difficult time critiquing it.

lindy: And pretty much they all say "how nice"

lindy: Right

Lyra_: Mostly the group was emotional support for me--pre chatroom

Verla: And the same goes with picture books vs middlegrade/YA's (lyra excepted. She can critique ANYTHING and do a super great job of it.)

lindy: Sometimes, i think people who don't write rhyme sometimes thing anything in rhyme will work.

 

Sally1: My group is mostly beginning writers and are very concerned about the "nuts and bolts."

Karma: Good point Sally.

 

dori: Are manuscripts read aloud in live critique groups?

lindy: Some groups read aloud, others don't

lindy: I think it depends on the level of the writer and the type of ms.

Lyra_: The group I was in read aloud

lindy: picture books DEFINATELY should be read aloud

lindy: by someone ELSE, not the writer

Verla: Absolutely!

lindy: In our group, we read up to about 5 pages max

Verla: You cannot really tell if something works in a picture book unless it is read aloud.

Lyra_: It worked well for us to read our own

Lyra_: But then most were writing adult fiction

lindy: Although one can talk about the writing in 5 pgages of a MG or YA, one really can't get much of an idea if it will work or not

Karma: Authors tend to expect the "word stumbles" in the manuscript, and read around them.

Karma: A cold reader doesn't.

 

Verla: In our group, we always came with one written manuscript for each person there...and handed them out. Then everyone could write notes on the manuscript as the author read her/his work.

lindy: Yes, one manuscript each.

lindy: And it's important to jot notes to the writer, he will hear them differently later

Lyra_: For shorter works, making copies works well, but it wouldn't have worked for our weekly long-fiction group

lindy: and pick out one phrase or word--whatever that was especially nice and note it.

lindy: (they need encouragement later too)

Lyra_: I would have enjoyed being in a juvenile critique group

Verla: If a person thought something wasn't "quite right" then he would read that part himself after the author had finished...to show the rest what point he wanted to make.

 

lindy: What are some problems of crit groups?

Karma: People trying to rewrite in their own voice!

Suzy-Q: some members don't want to hurt others feelings.

Suzy-Q: or they are too brutal.

Verla: Yep. I always try to note the GOOD stuff, as well as the things that might need "fixing."

Sally1: Gets touchy if the reader can't handle the crictisms.

lindy: Very true. And a hard lesson to learn for new critiquers

Lyra_: Oh, we had lots of problems after a few years...personalities clashing

Verla: Too much chit chat and not enough serious talk!

lindy: One should rewrite for the writer, but ask questions that will encourage THEM to revise

lindy: I think it's good if one or two people in the group (there' always a kind soul) watch out that the crit is good before bad

lindy: ...that some "defect" isn't harped on"

 

lindy: And I think it's important to start the group wwith not more than 5 minutes chit chat--and then read ms.

lindy: It's also important to ask the author what the piece is for

lindy: pic book, mag, etc

Suzy-Q: How do you know what your own voice is?

Karma: I've learned my voice...

Sally1: How?

Verla: You keep writing, Sally.

Karma: By critiquers eliminating it.

Suzy-Q: I have heard people talk about it.... But don't know if I have one.

Karma: I rewrite, and the story loses it's umph.

Karma: Everyone has one. You do too Suzy.

Verla: More and more, you will find that a certain kind of phrase feels "right" to you. Some kinds of word flows "work" for you.

Karma: I've read your stuff. It's there.

Sally1: By your "voice," do you mean your style, or what?

Karma: Kind of Sally.

Verla: Yes. The particular phrases that YOU use to tell how a person is angry. They way you show joy and fear in a person in your manuscript is your "style."

Gail: I find that you can hear the person talking when you read their writing. That is especially true if they are foreign born. I caught kids plagerizing by reading their work and not hearing THEM. We all have certain patterns and mannerisms.

 

dori: How long do live crit gatherings run?

Karma: I'll never be in a live critique group...

lindy: We have a group of 5 to six usually and we go three hours

Verla: We met at 9am and went til noon.

Verla: three hours

Verla: With 5-6 people

lindy: Not everyone brings something each time; it's important to at the beginning of the meeting say, "who brought something..."

lindy: So you can plan your time

lindy: Although you can do larger groups 8-10 if not everyone reads--nor comments

Verla: Right. We would divide up the group into the amount of time we had.

Verla: If there were three there, we each got about 45 minutes of time on our manuscripts...and then shared information, etc. until time to go.

Lyra_: My very first group was large and only a few read each time

.

 

Holly: How do you go about forming a live group, especially if you are new in an area.

Karma: I'm in too small an area for a live group.

Suzy-Q: Great question Holly!

Lyra_: when starting a new group, it would be wise to establish rules and format right off

Verla: I got ahold of the SCBWI (Society of Children's Book Writers & Illustrators) roster, Holly. (I'm a member)

Verla: And went down the list of everyone near my area that was listed.

 

lindy: Get to know your librarian and book store owners.

lindy: Ask if they know anyone who writes and would like to maybe get a group togehther

Holly: Thats a good way, but what if you live in a small town

lindy: Check at your local schools for creative writing classes

lindy: and at colleges

Karma: You join an online crit group, like we did. LOL!

Holly: Can't get much better than that, can you Karma?

lindy: Post a small sheet at those locations and say 'come on down!"

Verla: Use the SCBWI roster, Holly and Karma.

lindy: if you hold you meeting in a public place, more people will come

 

Karma: Will you cover "virtual" groups in this session tonight, Lindy?

lindy: I have not been a member of a virtual group....

lindy: But certainly, one must write their crit carefully to not be offenssive.

lindy: I would think it more difficult in that way.

lindy: But also, I've heard that people tend to be more honest , and can soak in the crit better.

 

Sally1: That's where we meet....library

Karma: Unfortunately.

Suzy-Q: But, on line crit groups don't always work.

Karma: Know, they don't.lindy: --although in any group there is natural atrophy

Verla: I find public places are too noisy!

Karma: I like the convenience and freedom of online crit.

Verla: atrophy?

Karma: And yes, Holly, our gruop RULES! : )

Verla: Sheesh. I need a dictionary!face crit.

Holly: Me too Karma, esp. if you have little child

Gail: I do too, Karma, but would like to try face to ren at home.

lindy: There are private rooms in libraries

lindy: Senior citzen centers, churches

Karma: No way it will happen in a town of 5000.

lindy: community centers, in the summer you can be at a park

Verla: Not MY library, Lindy. Too small

Lyra_: We met in a central home--until she moved

 

 

 

lindy: Karma, what do you feel is the best--and worst of an online group?

Holly: Our seems to work well. Ive learned so much

Karma: The best is freedom.

lindy: convenience and freedom (yes)

Karma: I can submit or read at my own time.

Verla: Online...I find the best is that you can do the critiques when YOU have time.

lindy: freedom to choose which manuscripts to critique? or when?

Karma: when.

Verla: When, lindy.

Karma: We critique all manuscripts.

Karma: I love being able to really take time, and write suggestions as I read.

Verla: The worst, is that sometimes you feel overwhelmed by all the submissions and don't have time to do what you want to with them.

Holly: You can yell at the person who critiqued your manuscript and they never know it. (Just kidding)

Verla: Hey. That's a VERY valid positive point, Holly.

 

 

lindy: What is the best way to handle a manuscript that you feel incapable of addressing?

Gail: Be honest!

Lyra_: good question...

Karma: Be honest, always.

Gail: I love honesty, even when i hate it.

Lyra_: I expect honesty

Karma: I not only expect it, I depend on it.

lindy: What do you think are some negative things about online groups?

Suzy-Q: when people don't participate

Karma: Absolutely SQ.

Verla: when I come across one that I honestly can't critique because I don't feel I could help the person....then I usually just give an "overview" evaluation of the work. Mention its positive points and what/where I think it might find a home.

Suzy-Q: Or really get on a person's case because they feel that person is unsure of how to critique.

Karma: My first online critique group was a dud.

Karma: First two actually.

lindy: I read about a group that has rules as far as how many they can submit per month--and how many they must critique.

Karma: The more organized, the better, just like in live.

Verla: We limit our group to one submission per week per person.

Verla: So that we never get more than five per week.

Karma peers at the heavens and thanks God for STARS!

Karma: Stars is the name of our crit group.

Verla: (STARS is the name of our online critique group)

Holly: Good one Karma

lindy: I couldn't imagine critqueing five per week!

Karma: It's not that bad.

Karma: We do mostly Picture books, Lindy.

 

Verla: We don't usually get that many, lindy. That is the MAXIMUM.

Holly: But not everyone subs one every week

Verla: We usually get 2-3 submissions per week

Holly: unless you are me, and you send two a week, sorry

Verla: LOL I only critiqued one, Holly.

lindy: congratualation Holly! Way to be productive!

Karma: It's so nice to compare all the crits, and see what keeps coming up.

Verla: And if a person is too busy, they just tell everyone and skip critiques for that week.

 

Gail: I would like to join STARS.

Suzy-Q: I think we should have one called Kidlit....

 

lindy: We meet once every three weeks... How about you all?

. Verla: We used to meet once a month. (I'm talking about my personal, LIVE critique group, now)

 

 

lindy: I also think it's important to encourage people to bring a manuscript back.

lindy: I think a lot of newer writers abandon a piece too early

lindy: And sometimes it has to grow, before it can be honed

Lyra_: on the other side of that, I've seen a manuscript worked YEARS to death, instead of coming up with something new

lindy: True true!

lindy: I think a writer should be encouraged ENCOURAGED maybe even prodded occassionally if he hasn't brought in something new

Lyra_: It's nice to encourage people...of course they have to want it bad enough to do it on their own

lindy: Everyone has to be writing--not just criticizing another's work or honing his same piece week and month after year

Verla: Uh oh....I sense you are all looking at ME, now.... gulp.

 

Verla: Oh, here's one more POSITIVE about on-line groups, lindy.

Verla: Each critiquer sends their critiques to the WHOLE group. So you not only get to see everyone's critiques of YOUR work, but also of your fellow "listers" works. And you can compare everyone's notes and learn a LOT from them.

Gail: I agree.

Gail: Seeing another's critique really helps.

Lyra_: That would be helpful...wish I'd had it early in my career

lindy: That's an excellent point, Verla. I think that is certainly one reason real life groups work is that we learn from each other

dori: But you should do your critique first before reading the ones the others in your group have done of a manuscript

Verla: Yes. I NEVER read another person's critique before doing my own. THEN I look at what the other's in the group had to say about a manuscript. I'm often surprised at the things I missed noticing!

dori: agreed, Verla

 

lindy: And I think it's important not to be in a mind set about a particular piece...

lindy: like "this is a Greenwillow picture book and could NOT POSSIBLY be anything else but a picture book and could not be sent anywhere EXCEPT to Greenwillow"

Lyra_: I've learned a lot from critiquing other manuscript and hearing others' comments

Karma: Critiquing others has helped me to critique myself more effectively.

Gail: Agreed, Karma

 

lindy: I also think it's important for writers to encourage others to look at the magazine market--or the MG markets... or other markets

lindy: Too often, one looks only at "books"

Karma: I always ask for market suggestions.

Verla: Good point, lindy!

Karma: It's so helpful for me, as I can't afford monthly periodicals with tips, other than SCBWI bulletin.

lindy: And ask for editors names too. Sometimes, you will learn of an editor's preference

 

Suzy-Q: What if you aren't sure what market you write best for? lindy: Then SQ, I would ask other writers to tell me what they think?

 

 

Verla: Can you give some concrete suggestions for starting up a live critique group, lindy?

Verla: Once you have found one or two or more people, what then?

Verla: And just for the record, when I moved up here to the mountains, I had to leave my WONDERFUL critique group I had started down on the coast. And I found ONE person who wrote for kids and we started meeting...eventually we had 6 people.

lindy: I would have a first meeting to discuss goals of the group

Verla: Sample goals would be like?

lindy: Sample goals would be to produce three publishable ms in a year

lindy: To imporve your sense of plot

lindy: to learn to show not tell

lindy: to write tighter

lindy: to always have something out there being considered (or at least in the slush pile!)

Verla: To WRITE something for each meeting, lindy!

lindy: GREAT GOAL VERLA!!!!!

Verla: Yep. I found that having a LIVE critique group kept me writing more than the online one does.

Verla: Because in my live group it was NOTICED if I didn't have something to share!

 

lindy: I think it's important for everyone to voice WHY they want to be a part of the group, and what they want the group to do for them

lindy: I think OPEN communication is THE most important thing in ANY relationship

Verla: We will each read X amount of time or pages per session?

lindy: And one must be open to change as well.

Holly: Do you think a writer would generally benefit more from an on-line group or a live group?

lindy: I do not have a strong feeling about that. I think one is more limited by a live group, because of travel

Karma: I've heard both Holly.

Karma: Some say online, some say live.

Lyra_: I loved my live group in the early years, but it changed towards the end

lindy: and I think in an online group one might be able to associate more closely with ones peers and others who write/ market to the same genre.

Verla: I think BOTH are equally valid in their own place, Holly. For a person without the time or energy or closeness to other writers to meet live, then on-line is great.

Karma: I'm all for online. You can form a group with more of a pool of writers.

dori: Also, Holly, I think it would depend upon the individuals... the chemistry, so to speak

lindy: I think both offer something

Karma: Our group is rare though. We have such a great mixture.

dori: I like the on-line... but I think a live group could be really stimulating...

Verla: But nothing compares to actually physically HUGGING your fellow writer when he/she makes a sale! (Unless of course, you are an anti-hugger...)

Holly: cyber hugs lack something

Karma: I sat and cried for joy when Linda wrote about getting her agent.

 

Dawn: Have you ever been in a group where someone got really offended at your suggestions?

Verla: I haven't, Dawn. But I think that is because we have always been VERY careful to give suggestions for changes as SUGGESTIONS, not demands!

lindy: Dawn, Offended at suggestion to change manuscripts?

Dawn: I am not part of a group yet, and I was wondering.

lindy: I think it takes time for any group... online or in real life to get to know each other

Holly: Don't you think to be in a critique group, you have to develop a tough skin. If you don't like something someone wrote, you can just say, that doesn't work for me, and not get offended

Lyra_: You have to be careful to only take on critique commitments you can handle

Verla: Yes. And some of your critique buddies will become your best friends.

lindy: sometimes when someone seems overly critical of your writing (piece after piece) it could be something else

dori: like what, Lindy

lindy: It could be jealously, it could be that they love your writing so much that they just ALWAYS focus on the bad--because it's so good everywhere else...

Verla: But, Holly, if you ALWAYS "coat" your critique with good things as well as the problem areas, then it never stings so much.

Holly: true, Verla. But one can't expect to be in a crit group and only recieve praise. If thats the case, just let your Mom read it and no one else.

Verla: No, I'm not talking about ONLY praise...but about making sure that you point out the GOOD "as well as" the bad in every manuscript

Holly: I know Verla, I'm not that tough that I would only want critisism. I live off praise!! Karma: I've noticed too, that some folks just don't "get" my style.

lindy: Karma, that's an important point... And I think that's why it's necessary to allow a number of people to read your manuscript.

lindy: An unusual style is NOT accepted by everyone--or understood.

Lyra_: Definitely...

Lyra_: or just writing a different genre makes it hard to understand sometimes

lindy: Absolutely

Verla: I don't usually put up my cryptic rhyme stories for critique sessions, because they are SO different that it's really hard for others to critique them

 

Lyra_: And sometimes it's uncomfortable when you grow at different career speeds--like being the only unpublished or only published in a group

Verla: Yes. I had that problem for a while.

dori: Ahhhh

Sally1: You're right.,Lyra

 

lindy: I've also noticed that some people get hung up on ONE point of critiques. Tight writing or grammar, or dialog tag lines... or some ONE thing

Verla: Hmmm. Good point, lindy

Lyra_: I've seen that, too, lindy

 

 

 

lindy: I've found oine VERY GOOD way to get to know your fellow writer, is to ask them what they have read ... LATELY!

lindy: If they are critiquing your MidGrade or Young Adult novel and they know NONE of the last twenty Newbery's....

Karma: Hmmm...Moonbathing, Missing May, Maniac MgGee, Flannel Kisses.... :)

Karma: Next on list .... Good Knight!

Lyra_: I prefer juvenile fiction that's more fun than award winning books

lindy: And that's mighty dandy fine, Lyra. but it helps one to know another writer better, where he is coming from--when you DO know those award-winning books.

Verla: Hmmm. Interesting concept, lindy.

Lyra_: agreed, lindy

 

 

lindy: Did you read Flannel Kisses?

Karma: Yes.

Karma: So wonderful for my kids.

Karma: We LIVE that life.

Verla: What genre is Flannel Kisses, lindy? (And no, I haven't read that one.)

lindy: picture book

Verla: Yikes!

Verla: Five minutes to End, lindy.

lindy: okey doke

Suzy-Q: this has gone too fast!

Holly: Way too fast

Verla: We need a wrap-up...

lindy: I also think it's important to take in new people in a group

Suzy-Q: what if your are all new?

 

Verla: Yes. It keeps the "pot" bubbling, lindy, when you have new people.

lindy: It's easy to become stagnant... One starts to expect Peggy to critique spelling, Martha to nag at the slight plot... etc etc

Verla: Yes, because usually each person usually has some special critique areas where they excel

Verla: Where they can help the most

lindy: And even if you have a closed group, if you open your meetings to Newbies once in a while, it allows them to learn something about how to run a crit group...

lindy: And your group remembers how important it is to say teh good before the bad...

Verla: True!

lindy: Sometimes in older groups, people just start blurting the bad... and although once in a while that's okay... it's a bad practice

Verla: It's easy to forget, especially when one's writing is consistantly GOOD. Then you tend to just concentrate on the small problem places

Verla: Because it would take too long to point out all the good stuff

Holly: Thats very true Verla

Holly: I probably do that. You just think this is so good, they must know it, I'll just tell them bad

Holly: And you pick to find one thing, that maybe isn't bad

 

Lyra_: sometimes a group changes and ends because needs are different--and that's okay

 

lindy: Plus,. if one member is well published, other members start to read ALL her work as "Wow. you're perfect"

lindy: (which is probably not the case)

Lyra_: agreed

Verla: Yeah. I had that problem!

Verla: I was the only one who was published in my group and I came away each time feeling like I had helped others, but no one tore MY work apart enough to really help me much.

 

lindy: I also think it's important to encourage new crit members that if they can read, they can critique.

Karma: Very true.

lindy: Just say "how they felt about it" they don't have to use big words.... or "right" words... we also should encourage the GIVERS of critiques as much as the writers

Verla: Very interesting point, lindy!

Verla: Ah...our time is up.

Verla: SUCH a good session, lindy. Any final words of wisdom from our fearless leader?

lindy: If you have a piece which you love.... and NO ONE else loves it.... hang in there. You must just not be expresssing it right --yet. Keep working on it.

lindy: No matter what "they " think!

 

 

Karma: Bye all. I have to go. Great workshop Lindy! See everyone later!

Lyra_: thanks, lindy!

dori: Thanks, Lindy, for your input

Gail: ClapClapClap, for Linda. I talked my bookstore into getting your book, so if it sells in Seattle, that was ME!

lindy: oh thank you gail!

Holly: Thanks Lindy, good session

Verla: I have something to tell you, lindy!

Sally1: Thanks, Lindy. Good chat!

Dawn: Thanks Lindy, I'm looking forward to getting into a critique group

Verla: This was a GREAT workshop. Thank you SO much!

Suzy-Q: Thanks Lindy!!!! You and your bunny slippers did a GREAT job!!!

dori: Thanks again, Lindy. Good night, all

 

 

lindy: You're welcome. I enjoyed it.

 

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Verla Kay

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