Verla: Is everyone ready for this TERRIFIC workshop?

*** Verla has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Finishing a Novel Workshop in Progress

LindaSue: OK, hopefully what I type is showing up quickly?

Verla: Seems to be, LindaSue

deetie: lots of splits tonight, verla.

deetie: be forewarned.

LindaSue: Splits? What's splits?

Verla: that's when people leave and go to another room (not voluntarily) LindaSue. Don't worry about it. If it happens, we will tell you

Verla: Hello, Everyone!

elsbet: : )

Amishka: Hi PR

elsbet: HELLO VERLA!!!

Verla: Welcome to the Kidlit Workshop for this month.

PamelaRoss: Happy to be here and in so easily. FOR A CHANGE.

Verla: Okay... for those who are new, and for those who are senile and can't remember from month to month (that's ME!) Here are the "rules" for our workshops....

Verla: Welcome to our monthly Kidlit Workshop. We ask that you hold all personal chit-chat until the hour is up, but we encourage you to join the discussion in progress of the topic currently under discussion.

Verla: Personal chit chat means saying hello and goodbye, too.

Verla: If you need to leave, please just sneak out quietly. You can come back in an hour after the workshop is done and say your hellos and goodbyes

Verla: Our leader tonight is Linda Sue Park!

Verla: I'm going to give you her "bio" in a minute... but you may welcome her while I'm posting it

elsbet: Thanks for coming Linda Sue!

ToniB: Welcome LS!

Verla: Thanks for coming, Linda Sue!

Nonna: Welcome, Linda Sue!

Dawnb: Welcome Linda Sue

LindaSue: My pleasure, elsbet, Verla, everyone :-)

Verla: Linda Sue Park is the author of three middle-grade novels, SEESAW GIRL, THE KITE FIGHTERS, and A SINGLE SHARD (all, Clarion Books). A fourth novel will be published in Spring 2002; two picture books are also forthcoming. She has also published poems, short stories and essays for the adult market.

Verla: Linda Sue worked at various writing jobs for many years, including public relations work, food journalism and freelance editing. Since childhood, however, her first love has always been children's literature. You can learn more about her and her work at her website: http://www.lindasuepark.com

Verla: Linda Sue's topic for tonight is: THE END - Finishing a Novel

Verla: and I'm eager to hear what she has to say!

LindaSue: Thanks, Verla :-)

NOTE-- :-) is a sideways smiley face

Verla: If you have comments or questions, please just "blurt them out" as we keep our workshops fairly informal unless we have a massive amount of attendees.

Verla: If Linda Sue gets too many questions at once, we will ask you to hold them for a few minutes until she answers all the ones on the "floor."

LindaSue: I guess I'll start by defining "finished." For me, there are two kinds of 'finished'--finishing the first draft, and revising/finishing for submission.

Verla: Yes, those are definitely two different kinds of "finishes," Linda Sue. Are we going to talk about both of them tonight?

LindaSue: I'm going to start with the first definition, because I know LOTS of people who have said to me, "I started a novel once, but I never finished it..." or something similar.

LindaSue: Verla--I'm probably going to spend more time on the first kind of finishing, but hopefully will have time to get to the second.

Verla: Goodie. (And if we don't have time for the second kind of finishes, you will just have to have another workshop later to do that subject, Linda Sue. <grin>)

LindaSue: I also want to say that I will be giving some tips tonight. I want to emphasize that they're TIPS, not RULES. Some of them work for me. Some of them don't work for me at all, but I know they work for others. Anyone who wants to write a novel has to find what works best for them!

Verla: (Don't you just hate it when you are told there's no one right way to do this? I always wish I could just have someone give me a proven "formula" for success!).

LindaSue: OK, the first thing is almost a given: It has to be a story you believe in. A story you love, that you can hardly wait to tell. This will go longer than any other single thing in pushing you toward "The End."

LindaSue: Even with that in place, it can still be hard to finish. But without it, it's almost impossible.

LindaSue: For me, anyway.

Verla: I think you are right, Linda Sue. That's how it was for me, too.

Traciez: Does that mean you "KNOW" the ending?

LindaSue: Tracie--depends on the writer. Me, I always know my endings, but I know lots of writers who don't.

Traciez: thanks.

Verla: (I don't know about Linda Sue, but I have a VERY hard time writing if I don't know the ending first. It's almost impossible for me to get excited about my story if I don't know where it's going to end up.)

LindaSue: Having a story you love basically means having a character you love who has a problem you care about.

Traciez: good definition:)

Verla: I agree, Tracie

LindaSue: If you have that story in your head, you can try what Anne Lamott calls the "s*****y first draft" method

LindaSue: Lamott's method means you 'write through' the story, no brakes on. You just blaze through, don't worry about plot inconsistencies or grammar or anything except getting a first draft DONE.

LindaSue: A very high proportion of novelists I know use this method.

LindaSue: It does NOT work for me, but it seems to work for lots of people.

Estar: LS, do you usually work similar to Lamott's method?

Estar: Wow! That answered my question.

elsbet: Do you ever have a story beginning occur to you, that needs to be written, but you don't know the end yet, and let serendipity take you?

LindaSue: Yes, elsbet. I wrote one novel for which I did not have the ending in my head. Unfortunately, it's the only one that never sold, LOL! But I still think it could work for other writers--just not for me.

Verla: Do you tend to revise "as you go?" Or do you just do a rough (possibly very bad) first draft and then go back and start revising when it's done?

LindaSue: I revise *heavily* as I go, Verla.

Verla: That's how I have to do it, too, Linda Sue. I can't go forward with "gaps" in the story, or problems that I know are there

LindaSue: Estar--no, as I said, I revise A LOT as I go along. By the time I hit "The End" the piece is close to ready for submission.

_Lyra: I revise heavily as I go, too

LindaSue: BUT. As I said, many writers benefit from the s*****y first draft method.

Verla: Is that a "shitty" draft method, Linda Sue? (Since it's a quote, I feel it's okay to say it here.)

LindaSue: Yes, Verla. Lamott calls it the "shitty first draft."

LindaSue: So: tip #1: shitty first draft. But how do you even get *there*??

Estar: I understand that you have your ending early on, but have your characters ever insisted you change it?

Amishka: Mine have, EStar

LindaSue: Estar--not mine, but again I know of other people who have done this.

Traciez: LS, when you revise as you go, do you look at description once, then voice, then... or just revise line by line!

elsbet: Since it didn't work out I won't ask question 2 on that one, LOL

NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud

LindaSue: Tracie--first revisions are 'global'--I'm looking at everything. Later fine-tunings, I might be looking at particular aspects.

Andria: You know the begining and the ending, Linda Sue. Do you also know the middle when you start to write?

LindaSue: No, Andria. The middle I don't know for certain. I have ideas, of course, but that's when my characters tend to take the lead.

LindaSue: So I know where I'm going, but not how I'm going to get there.

Estar: LS Do you work from an outline?

LindaSue: Yes, Estar. A very rough outline. A sample is available at my website, the outline I used for SEESAW GIRL (my first book).

ToniB: Cool, LS. I've never seen that there. Did you FOLLOW it?

Estar: Thanks. I'll look.

LindaSue: Yes, I did, Toni. *g* It's based on the outline Lois Lowry uses. I've used it for every novel.

NOTE: *g* = GRIN

LindaSue: (including the one that didn't sell...)

ToniB: Lois Lowry has a particular outline she uses? Her books are so different!

elsbet: Do you set limits on your writing? like maybe not exceeding a certain word count, even in your first draft, to help you keep focused to the end?

ToniB: Think Anastasia. Think Gathering Blue!

LindaSue: Yes, Toni--it's on my site, check it out, it's wonderful.

LindaSue: elsbet--thanks, I was just going to get to that. :-)

ToniB: I will! If I wouldn't miss things, I'd slip over right now.

Verla: I'm still on that "second finishing" of my novel, I have a first draft done, but it's not ready yet to be sent out. I had a chapter by chapter outline for it... it mutated drastically during the first draft writing, but even with the mutations, it stuck pretty much to the "basic" ideas for the story. Of course, this story "germinated" for about 10 years in my head as I wrote bits and pieces of it.

elsbet: great minds, LOL

LindaSue: I think it's important for novelists to have goals. Daily goals if possible, but that's not always possible for me because I still have a day job.

LindaSue: My goal is two pages per day, about 500 words. I read that this is what Katherine Paterson set as a goal for herself. If it was good enough for her!!

Catfish: That's a problem for me...my day job fragments my writing goals.

LindaSue: Two pages seemed a very 'doable' amount to me.

LindaSue: But the most important thing was making it a HABIT.

_Lyra: I try to add a page or several every day -- but sometimes it's just rewriting

LindaSue: When I wrote my first two novels, I had only three writing days/week. But I wrote two pages EVERY time I sat down.

Catfish: If I don't write something I do try to edit something I have written.

LindaSue: At first it was hell. I'd write a page and a third and want to quit, and press on even though what I wrote was really awful.

LindaSue: It took about two months for it to become a habit.

LindaSue: And after that, it was simply miraculous. If I DIDN'T get my two pages done, it felt like not brushing my teeth or something--it felt all wrong! And therefore it almost never happened.

Verla: Ah... that's good to know, LindaSue

Estar: LS Did it take you a lot longer to finish your 1st book compared to those since then?

Verla: Ooooh, GOOD question, Estar!

LindaSue: Sometimes I threw the two pages away the next day. Other times two pages would turn into ten before I knew it. But I hardly *ever* missed that goal.

LindaSue: Estar--I'll have to think about that. Yes, I'd say it did. Because my first three books each took six months to write, but the third book is almost exactly twice as long as the first.

LindaSue: Your personal goal might be a word count, or an amount of time, or a weekly goal. But whatever it is, I think the HABIT part is vital.

Verla: Wow.... That's great to know, Linda Sue. So for you, it got a little easier with successive books?

LindaSue: Well, sort of, Verla, LOL. My most recent book took eight months to submission...it's now 15 months later and I'm still revising.

keymoo: What time of day do you write?

LindaSue: keymoo--mornings. I have until about one. Then my husband comes home from work and kids from school, so no writing afternoon or evening.

_Lyra: It's a habit for me to write every morning -- taking about 5-6 months for my current mg

Verla: I'm NOT a "habitual" person. I never do the same thing at the same time of day two days in a row. Some days I get up at 5:30 AM and other days I get up at 11:30 AM. Sometimes I eat breakfast at 7:30, other days it's 4 PM before I eat anything at all... about the only thing I ever do that's "regular" is chat in here at night!

LindaSue: Verla--different life situations. I have to get up early with my kids; I have to get the writing done in the morning because I have no opportunity other times of the day.

Verla: Yes, that makes a big difference, Linda Sue. When I was working outside the house full-time, I did things on a more regular basis, too, come to think of it.

Estar: LS do you have children the ages of your protagonists?

LindaSue: Estar--yes. Son 16, daughter 12. They're my first readers. *g*

elsbet: of course you NEVER tell the editors that your kids loved them, do you, *weg*

NOTE: weg = Wicked, Evil Grin

Dawnb: Do you concentrate your two pages every day on just one project until complete or did different muses grab you sometimes?

LindaSue: Dawnb--yes. Again, that's a personal decision. I'm a one-project-at-a-time person when it comes to novels. I can be working on a novel and a picture-book at the same time, or a novel and poetry, but never two novels.

PamelaRoss: But the point is you work through all of the "extracurriculars

PamelaRoss: and FINISH the novel!

LindaSue: Tip #3: crit-partner 'assignments.'

Verla: I didn't see Tip #2!

LindaSue: Verla: #1) shitty first draft. #2) Make a writing HABIT. #3) crit group assignments.

Verla: ah HA! We didn't get #2 in "concrete form"

Verla: (with the # sign in front of it)

LindaSue: A critique partner or group can help you with your goals. If you have a partner or group, give each other an assignment--a chapter a month, a scene a week, whatever.

Traciez: How many do you think is good for a group?

LindaSue: I know four novelists who work together once a month. Each of them says it drives them, knowing they will have to have something to give the group every month.

Verla: (Personally, I think four to six is a perfect number, Tracie.)

elsbet: my group used to do that, LS- we had a blast, and I had a whole novel idea come out of a short story assignment

keymoo: Is four a good limit?

LindaSue: Tracie--again, depends on the individual. I have only one crit partner; I found I didn't work well with a group. But I agree with Verla, 4-6 is good.

Verla: yes, some people work best with only one crit partner

Estar: I agree with one crit parter. It depends, maybe on how private a person you are. Yea I know.. but many writers are very private people.

elsbet: 6 works good

LindaSue: If, like me, you are immature, you can also use a 'rewards' system.

Traciez: chocolate, LS?

elsbet: chocolate??? no way! Sushi rice

Verla: LOL YOU are immature, Linda Sue? I don't believe it!

Dawnb: Rewards? I'm all for that

LindaSue: When I was first trying to start my writing habit, I would sit down at the computer. I would open Word. I did NOT allow myself to check my e-mail or the web until I had finished my two pages.

LindaSue: After I finished, I could e-mail, web, and play Dr. Mario. *g*

Verla: I LOVE to play Dr. Mario!

Verla hugs Linda Sue... a kindred spirit for sure!

LindaSue: I also had other rewards. If I finished one page, I could get a cup of tea.

Estar: I agree with the discipline about writing first. I've wasted lots of 'writiing time' that way.

LindaSue: You can also use punishments--no going to the bathroom until you get to the bottom of the page, LOL. (I've done that, no kidding!!)*

elsbet: eeeps

Verla: Now THAT is capital punishment over here, Linda Sue. AND it's not good for your health, either. Besides which, I think that comes under the heading of MTWNTK! (More Than We Needed To Know!)

LindaSue: LOL at Verla!

Verla hangs her head in dispair... she knows she should do that "work first, email/play later" thing EVERY day.

Dawnb: I see that I am doing it backwards

LindaSue: Dawnb--please remember, these are things that worked for me, but might not work for everyone. I don't think there is a "backwards", but you need to find what works for you.

Dawnb: Well reading emails first isn't really working :-)

LindaSue: Recap: Tip #4: Rewards.

LindaSue: #5 is: "out of order" writing.

elsbet: Is that when a scene or section of dialog occurs to you and you write it in out of order?

LindaSue: Yes, elsbet. If you really can't bear to write the scene that ought to be next, skip it! Write a scene that comes later!

elsbet: I like doing that

_Lyra: LS--I've never done out of order writing...except for a few ending lines

keymoo: So it's along the same lines as plowing through the first draft -- to get it down.

Estar: Now I have a name of how I always write. "Out of Order!" LOL

LindaSue: Lyra--I've done it with endings twice, but I've done it other times as well. Sometimes the scene doesn't fit in smoothly, or has to be rehashed...but it still 'counts' as my two pages.

Verla: I HAD to do that, or I'd never have finished my novel. I would simply write a sentence like: Holly and Donn have a fight, then go on to the next scene. Later, it was easy to come back and fill in the blanks

LindaSue: Tip #6: putting it away for a while. I have to say, I almost never use this tip myself. If I leave a project it goes cold on me. But again, others use it effectively--they leave the novel and work on something else for a while, and then come back to it.

Verla: (I did that for 11 years, off and on with my current WIP novel)

NOTE: WIP = Work In Progress

that up that I try not to abandon it!

Verla: but I finally finished the first draft!

LindaSue: But it goes against my two-pages-per-day habit, and I worked so hard to build

elsbet: 6 works very well for me.

Estar: What about a similar tactic... writing more than one thing at a time and switching off from time to time?

LindaSue: Estar--yes, if you're able to work on more than one project at once (which I can't do).

Verla: I can work on several picture books at a time, and my novel and picture books, but I don't think I could work on more than one NOVEL at once. I need to "get into my character's heads" too thoroughly to be able to switch from book to book.

_Lyra: I stick to one novel at a time -- and it consumes me even when I'm not working

Dawnb: It definitely gives me perspective to set it aside

Traciez: I put it away before I polish.

LindaSue: Estar, Dawnb, Tracie--yes, that's when I think things should be set aside, before revision. A lot of people who 'set something aside' before THE END end up never finishing...

Dawnb: Then you aren't so attached to particular scenes and can edit more objectively

LindaSue: So, if you're really stuck, I like tip #7 better: Make a change.

elsbet: do you mean a change in the story, or a new book?

LindaSue: Tip #7--making a change. Here's what I mean by that. You're stuck, you just can't get the next scene or chapter written.

LindaSue: Try one of these two simple things.

LindaSue: 1) Change the narrative voice. If you're writing in first person, switch to third. If you're writing in third, switch to first. NOT for the whole novel!! Just for the one scene, or just for the chapter, or just for that day. It's a way of 'tricking' yourself into a different perspective.

LindaSue: OR 2) Change the tense. If you're writing in past tense, switch to present. If you're writing in present, switch to past.

elsbet: cool idea, Linda sue!

LindaSue: It sounds ridiculous, but that slight change in perspective can help you come unstuck.

Verla: Hmm. That's an interesting idea, Linda Sue. Because once it's written, you can always go back and switch the tense or the voice. Great idea!

Estar: I like that idea a lot.

LindaSue: There are other ways to do this. Change the format entirely: write it as a diary entry, a letter, a newspaper article, but those ways are harder to 'switch back' later.

LindaSue: Still, they're worth a try, and they've helped me out more than once. *g*

LindaSue: Tip #8: write a letter or e-mail to a friend in which you tell him/her the whole story. Do it in about three paragraphs. Then write that shitty first draft based on those paragraphs.

elsbet: eeeps- that is almost as bad as your no bathroom break punishment!

LindaSue whispers: It's like writing a synopsis, but most people are scared of synopses. Writing it as a letter to a friend is less intimidating.

Estar: Couldn't you just incorporate the 'diary entry' (or whatever) into the ms?

LindaSue: Yes, Estar, of course you could! If it works...

Verla: ah... in other words, you "trick" yourself into writing a basic story outline!

Verla: What a great idea!

LindaSue: Yes, Verla. I have e-mails in which I do this--and I never sent them. Just the act of writing them out was enough.

ToniB: But you'd sure have to do more than one of those, Estar. Can't just plop in a single diary entry.

LindaSue: The e-mail can also be of the particular scene, doesn't have to be the whole book.

Verla: (That's why I have such a hard time writing a novel, Toni. I can put a whole novel/story line in just a couple of pages EASY. LOL!)

ToniB: LOL Verla! The two page novel!

ToniB: Think of all the trees it would save

elsbet: make for a short bedtime book, though

elsbet: not good for insomnia

Verla: Well, when you get used to writing as spare as I do, it's HARD to write "long!"

Catfish: One thing I have been trying is a mind mapping method

LindaSue: Catfish--that sounds interesting, what is it?

Verla: Yes, what is Mind-Mapping, Catfish?

Catfish: It's like free associating around your idea...kind of a loose outline.

Catfish: Verla I will send you some info after the chat.

Verla: thanks, Catfish!

INSERT MIND-MAP INFO

LindaSue: Verla--that's all I have 'formally' planned... I guess if there are any other questions??

janine4swa: a lot of your "rules" work for picture books too

LindaSue: janine--yes, I think a lot of the tips CAN work for picture-book writers, but I've found that they tend to work more in 'spurts.'

janine4swa: Sometimes I write a shitty picture book every day and then go

back and find which ones might work

Verla: Does anyone else have any questions? Or is there anyone else who has a different method of getting to "the end" that we haven't covered yet?

LindaSue: Oh, I know, I forgot the 'revising' type of finished.

LindaSue: For finishing revisions: Give it to a crit partner. Tell them to take at least a week or longer. Forget about it if you can.

SRW: what is the 'second' kind of finishing?

LindaSue: SRW--finishing not a first draft, but finishing for submission.

Verla: We have about five minutes left for discussion, folks... get your comments and questions in NOW

elsbet: as far as revising- how many times do you find that you revise your book before you feel it is ready, on average?

LindaSue: elsbet--Seesaw and Kite were revised four times each before submission, and of course several times afterwards. Shard was revised only once (it was a miracle book, it wrote itself). But the novel that will be out next spring was revised 17 times before submission...and the 37th version is the one that went to galleys.

Verla: You counted them, Linda Sue? Wow!

elsbet: 37??? wow

SRW: yikes, lots of revising

LindaSue: Verla--I number them on my harddrive. A revision means a BIG overhaul, not little stuff. I save a new version when I make a big change. Yup, 37 revisions...

Harazin: Linda--do you always do the revisions your editor suggests?

LindaSue: Hara--I always consider them carefully. I'd say I make about 80 percent of the changes she suggests.

Amishka: Linda do you always follow what your characters are telling you they want to do?

LindaSue: Ami--my characters don't seem to 'talk' to me the way other writers say theirs do. I guess I'm too bossy... *g* I pretty much tell THEM what to do. But sometimes they do surprise me!

Dawnb: Okay, I'm new to this contact with other writers so, how just how must critiquing does your crit partner do?

elsbet: as much as you ask for, Dawn

SRW: Dawn, different people will 'see' different things. Some crit partners will only give general input, some may see grammar/punctuation, and others are so thorough you'd rather they went home. *g* It varies by the person, not neccessarily the group.

Verla: my crit partners usually tear my stories to bits, Dawn. But I only "use" as much of their suggestions as "fit" my own personal image of the story. If I can see that their suggestions make "my" story better, then I use them. If I feel their suggestions are turning my story into something that isn't my own, or doesn't feel "right" to me, then I usually put them aside to "think about" but don't necessarily use them.

LindaSue: Verla--that's great. When I disagree with something my partner or editor says, sometimes I write it 'their way' just to prove that they're wrong. About half the time they're RIGHT, LOL!

Verla: Another thing I do with crits, is sometimes I save my story under a different version name (possibly My Story-Crit Version, or some name like that) and make all the suggested changes. Then I read it over and compare it to "my" version to see if I want to make those changes or not

Estar: LS I'd like to know if you work with an agent or sub directly?

LindaSue: Estar--I sold my first novel out of the slush pile. I got an agent for my second.

Estar: Thanks

Andria: How do you know how to blend just the right amount of history into your stories? Sorry if this was answered before --I was bumped off.

LindaSue: Andria--I think that comes from READING a ton of historicals. There are some that had way too much historical detail which bogged the story down...and others that I loved, that had just the right amount. Reading enough good ones gave me a 'feel' for how much was right.

Dawnb: How do most of you find your crit patners?

elsbet: online, Dawn

Estar: I'm kin to mine. LOL

LindaSue: Dawnb--I found mine at my local SCBWI meeting. But many folks nowadays find theirs online.

NOTE: SCBWI is the Society of Children's Book Writers & Illustrators

janine4swa: mine at the local SCBWI

Dawnb: Nothing is local where I am, I guess I'll be looking online

Amishka: Mine are all online Dawn

elsbet: where are you, Dawn?

Susette: I met all my crit partners online.

Dawnb: In a little town in Louisiana

elsbet: sorry- too far, : )

Guest40936: I found mine through childrens writers @yahoo groups

NOTE: This is the CW email list

Verla: I found my crit partners through the CW list and through this chat room, Dawn

Dawnb: Thanks for the suggestions

_Lyra: LS--What's the novel that will be out next spring?

DonnaBatem: LS, can you tell us about your upcoming novel? Title? Basic idea / plot?

LindaSue: Donna--I'd love to, thanks for asking. *g* My fourth novel will be out next spring. The title is WHEN MY NAME WAS KEOKO...

LindaSue: It's set during World War II, 1940-1945, in Korea. At that time, Korea was under Japanese occupation, and the Japanese attempted to stamp out all Korean cultural identity.

DonnaBatem: LS, a girl mc this time?

NOTE: MC = Main Character

LindaSue: They even made the entire population change their names to

Japanese names, hence the title.

DonnaBatem: LS, well that wasn't nice of them, was it!

elsbet: wow- great time period choice!

Estar: LS that is an intriguing setting & situation. How did you come up

with it?

LindaSue: Donna--two main characters, which is why the revisions were so

difficult. A girl (who goes from 10 to 15 in the novel) and her brother (age

13-18). Her chapters are first-person past-tense linear narrative. His

chapters are first-person present-tense stream of consciousness.

elsbet: Most people have realitives who remember that time- my Nana loves

talking about WW2

LindaSue: Estar--much of it is the story of my own parents, who lived

through that time.

LindaSue: The girl and brother alternate chapters throughout.

DonnaBatem: LS, oh my goodness. It sounds complicated.

Verla: Oh... Our time is UP! This was a GREAT workshop, Linda Sue. I

want to say a very special THANK YOU for leading this!

elsbet: Thanks LS!

Traciez: Very helpful!

Andria: Thanks Linda Sue and Verla too!

Amishka: Thanks LS

Traciez: Thank YOU both!

Dawnb: Thanks LS and Verla

Estar: Sounds great. Thanks for visiting with us and offering such

helpful advice.

LindaSue: Thank YOU, everyone!! Now shall I give you all an assignment??

You all have to make a writing habit before this time next month! ;-)

Guest40936: Thank, next time I'll get here sooner

DonnaBatem: Thanks Linda Sue! I'm sure your tips will be helpful as I work

my way through my first novel. I'm usually a PB writer.

Verla: I went to your website, Linda Sue, and printed out that novel

outline structure page you told us about. It was GREAT

Verla: http://www.lindasuepark.com

DonnaBatem: Hey, where on your site do I find the novel outline info.?

LindaSue: Donna--the "On Writing" page.

DonnaBatem: Thanks! I'll go find it!

LindaSue: Good luck, Donna!

DonnaBatem: Thanks LS!

_Lyra: thanks, LS -- great job!

------OFFICIAL END OF WORKSHOP----- MORE IMPROMPTU INFO FOLLOWS -----

Verla: thanks, janine. Our workshop next month will be on..

Verla: July 10th, and it will have both Agent Barry Goldblatt and Author

Toni Buzzeo doing a workshop on the Agent/Client Relationship

elsbet: oooh- that sounds great!

DonnaBatem: OOOOO, I'll have to come back for that one!

ToniB: Oh Yikes :> I better put that on my calendar, eh?

elsbet: LOL- you have to be here for that one, toni!

ToniB: LOL!

Dawnb: I am so syked that I found this chat!

Verla: 6pm Pacific/7pm Mountain/8pm Central/9pm Eastern is the starting

time for the workshop (and for our nightly "open" chat sessions in here)

Estar: Verla I had a 'strange' visual experience during tonight's

workshop. According to my monitor everyone left but me! Was I bumped? I just

waited and after about 4 minutes everyone returned and dialogue returned, but

I felt like I had missed something. What-ya think?

deetie: You split, estar.

Estar: What are you supposed to do when you "split"?

Verla: It may have been a split, estar. That sometimes happens.

Verla: sometimes, you can leave and come back in and get back into the

main room, but usually you just have to wait until the servers merge again

Guest40936: how do I change my ID?

Verla: To change your name to one that can be used, type /nick NEW NICK.

Try adding a ^carat or _slash or some numbers to it....

Verla: you need to make sure the slash/ is the first character in the

line to change your name, guest

PamelaRoss: Linda Sue: you really are an inspiration to those of us who hold

back from letting the words go...

LindaSue: PAMELA--YOU of all people need to FINISH YOUR BOOK!!!

PamelaRoss: (totally ashamed that Linda Sue knows my sins)

janine4swa: we all have em, Pamela

LindaSue: And Pamela, thank you. I didn't mean to shout. ;-) I just know it

will be terrific and I want it to be a BOOK!!!

Dawnb: I guess I'd better say goodnight if I'm going to get up early

early to begin my new habit of writing before work everyday

PamelaRoss: But my sin is precisely tonight's topic: learning how to FINISH.

This is death to a writer who wants to be published. <g>

elsbet: This workshop was great- I have a novel I am working on that I

was so STUCK on- I think I will play around with it tonight!

SRW: It's easy to start books, but takes discipline to complete them.

LindaSue: Thanks, elsbet, hope something helps!

SRW: When I got bumped I went to your page Linda Sue and started

printing the Novel Structure.

Verla: it takes discipline, but also some helpful techniques that keep

you "going" when the novel seems worthless. (And they always do, don't they?

They suddenly seem so trite, so NOT worth finishing!)

Writin: not just novels, Verla - even the short stuff seems trite after

the 14th re-write!

LindaSue: That novel structure thing, SRW, I find it very useful, but lots

of other novelists have told me they can't use it at all....different

strokes...

SRW: I don't get that part Verla, I get discouraged and want to much

to work on 'something' that positively has an immediate chance. LOL

SRW: Linda Sue, I find I have maybe the first few chapters outlined,

and a 'knowledge' of the ending, then I write. I don't have the whole thing

detailed. Let's me keep my mind open to what ideas may come.

LindaSue: SRW--really, that's basically what I have, and Lois Lowry's

outline allows for that kind of flexibility.

elsbet: LS- I just got A Single Shard- will be reading it soon. : )

Verla: Wow. We got a LOT of great information here after the official

workshop ended.

janine4swa: will you put that in the archives?

Verla: I may have to stick some of it into the transcript... kind of an

"after the discussion, discussion"

elsbet: thank you, LS!

Writin: thanks, LS!

Merrylegs: Thank you Verla for hostessing and thank you Linda Sue for

speaking. Good night.

---------END OF TRANSCRIPT-------