*** Verla has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Plotting Mysteries Workshop IN PROGRESS

dystar: hmph, yer late, Verla
Lyra: Verla--I seem to be giving a workshop, did you remember?
Verla: you ARE, Linda!
Verla: and here we all are!
dystar: there, see, it's official now
Lyra: but you didn't advertise it anywhere or remind me...but I saw it on my calendar
Andrea: we are asking her questions
Andrea: Bugging her for secrets
Lyra: LOL...secrets of staying sane
Andrea: We want the secret recipe, the magic potion, the elusive elixer
Lyra: Andrea...I'll tell you the secret recipe when I figure it out
Verla: Okay... here are the "rules" for this workshop. For anyone who doesn't know how these work.. here they are:
Verla: Welcome to our monthly Kidlit Workshop. We ask that you hold all personal chit-chat until the hour is up, but we encourage you to join the discussion in progress of the current topic.
Verla: Oh, I just realized I didn't get an updated Bio from you, lyra...
Verla: so we're going to have to sneak it in...
Verla: Linda Joy Singleton is our workshop leader tonight... and she is the author of ______ books....
Lyra: Verla, there's one on my website
Lyra: the new website (www.LindaJoySingleton.com)
Andrea: Do we all need to be quiet now?
Lyra: kia--I have 24 published books, 6 pubbed e-books, and 4 books coming out from Llewellyn
Verla: With plots involving twins, cheerleaders, ghosts, psychics and clones, Linda Joy Singleton has published over 25 midgrade and YA books.
Verla: Her REGENERATION series from Berkley Books was chosen by the ALA as a 2001 Quick Pick Choice for reluctant young adult readers. It was also released in foreign and large-print editions, plus it was optioned by Fox for a year.  And TWIN AGAIN, the first book in the series, MY SISTER THE GHOST, won the Eppie Award for the best children’s book in 2003.
Andrea: :) Thanks Lyra
Verla: Linda has two new magical, mysterious series starting in Fall 2004:
Verla: STRANGE ENCOUNTERS #1. OH, NO! UFO!
Verla:  11 year old Cassie who has out of this world adventures on family trips.
Verla: THE SEER #1. DON’T DIE, DRAGONFLY
Verla:  Sabine Rose is a teen detective with a 6th sense for solving mysteries.
Lyra: that's good enough, Verla (g)
NOTE: (g) = grin
Verla: When she’s not writing, she enjoys life in the country with a barnyard of animals including horses, cats, dogs and pigs.  She especially loves to hear from readers and speaking at schools and libraries. 
Verla: She collects vintage series books like Nancy Drew, Trixie Belden and Judy Bolton.  Some of her current favorite authors are Jeanne DuPrau, Margaret Peterson Haddix, Eva Ibbottson, Bruce Coville, Gordon Korman, Peg Kehret, Nancy Werlin, Joan Bauer, Kathryn Reiss and Nancy Farmer. 
Verla: When Linda is asked why she’d rather write for kids than adults, she says, “I love seeing the world through the heart of a child, where magic is real and every day begins a new adventure.  I hope to inspire them to reach for their dreams.  Writing for kids is a gift, a responsibility, and an honor.”
Lyra: wow--isn't that long? It didn't seem that long on my website
Verla: You can find out more about Linda Joy Singleton and her books by visiting her website (after the workshop! LOL!) http://www.LindaJoySingleton.com
NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud
*** Lyra is now known as Linda
Linda: so fire away? What secrets do you want to know about plotting?
Verla: And now that our workshop leader has finally changed into her professional clothing...
Linda: Verla, that's quite funny...
Verla: ...Heeeeeeere's Linda!
Daryl: (clapping)
Verla steps down from the podium amid cheers, claps, and whistles....
Verla: Yay, Linda!
Linda: ooh--applause...I like that
Andrea: *clap clap clap clap*
els: how detailed an outline do you write, Lyra?
Linda: I start off with a sketchy outline
Linda: Then as the story progresses, I write out what scenes are coming
Linda: But things change a lot.
Verla: can you give us an example of a sentence or two of what you consider a "sketchy" outline, Linda?
Linda: For instance, in the book I just turned in I had a different ending than the one I wrote
Linda: I'll like make a list of chapter events...like with DON'T DIE DRAGONFLY, the one I just finished revising, I knew it would open with a psychic vision of a tattoo
Linda: So my outline would have been something like: At school, have vision. Go home, get sense of family, meet Dominic
Verla: Oh. I see. It's just "bare bones" of the story... where you expect it to go.
Linda: Think of how movies start out with an exciting scene, but then they pull back so you can get to know the characters, then more exciting stuff
Linda: The best way to explain it would be to describe my process.
Linda: And keep in mind that I am heavy on plotting, athough the characters move the action
Verla: When I read a mystery, I love being befuddled and wondering how it's going to turn out. Are there any special "steps" you take when plotting a mystery to make sure it twists and turns enough without being confusing?
Linda: To answer that -- I LOVE to confuse my readers
Linda: I purposely toss out bits of information, without explaining too much
Linda: J.K. Rowling is excellent at this...she never tells anymore than she has to
Verla: Oh. So you tease the reader with a tiny bit of info, but hold back the reasons behind the info.
Linda: And in a book I just finished, there's a surprise at the end which the reader won't suspect
Linda: For mysteries, give just enough information to rouse curiosity
Linda: Like in DRAGONFLY, I mention early on that she has told a big lie...but it isn't revealed for a few chapters
dystar: how would you describe your mysteries? whodunnits? amateur detectives? something else?
Linda: Mine are a bit of everything.
Linda: Mostly I consider them puzzles, event unfolding gradually and the reader has to figure out who is guilty
maliazmom: When writing, do you keep both boys and girls in mind as far as their interests etc?So both will want to read your stories?
Linda: To be honest, I don't think about the reader. I think about how much fun it is to create a surprising story
Verla: Is there any kind of "formula" for mysteries? Like, tell the readers a real fact, then confuse them by making them feel it's not correct after all - lead them into a new direction, then let them find out that's not right, and send them on another false journey... and if you do something like that, how many times do you do it in a book? Or is it all just "whatever?" (or does that even make sense?)
Verla , who wants a "formula" for success in plotting.... <grin>
Linda: If there's a formula, I don't know it. In a way I plot by letting my characters play out their roles
Linda: If someone is being dishonest, that character can lie and confuse the reader...until the ending resolution
Linda: I don't really have a lot of false leads.
Linda: But people are hiding secrets and they gradually come out, revealing the entire puzzle
Verla: I've noticed when you are talking to me sometimes about a book in progress, you are always referring to your characters, Linda. They seem to really become "real" to you. How often do they take you somewhere you didn't expect to go by the end of the book? And do your endings ever deviate wildly from where you expected them to go when you started your story?
Linda: Verla, the ending in GHOSTLY CHARMS was going to conclude with a family birthday party and discovering a sister is psychic, too
Linda: But I changed my mind. I didn't want another psychic, it felt distracting.
Verla: hmmm. I see... so you twisted the ending to something else then....
Linda: So the ending instead comes back full circle to the beginning mystery about missing charms, with Sabine being given a charm
Daryl: How do you move from one event to the next without it feeling contrived? How do you get that organic, true to life plotting?
Verla: oh... good question, daryl!
Linda: I let the timeline progress naturally. If the setting is at school, there's the framework of classes and homework while clues are being discovered
ponytailmo: Sorry I'm late. If you've discussed this already I appologize. One of the things I like most about reading your stories is that there are so many mini mysteries throughout. Do you plot those as you plot the major one or after or do they come as you write?
Linda: I try to give all main characters a subplot that connects to the mystery
Verla: so your background plays a big part in what happens in the plots then, lyra! I see. I see.... Characters with problems, a good solid background scene to put them in... and then let them rip!
Linda: I think one of my best mystery plotting is with DOUBLE VISION
Linda: The background adds atmosphere, like a ghostly only appeared in the rain, so I mentioned weather a lot in that book
Verla: I've always been told your main character needs to "grow" by the end of the book... does that figure in the plotting of a mystery, too?
Linda: It's great if a main character has some growth
WriterMel: So, how do you figure out what "red herrings" to put in the mystery that seem "right", but aren't?
Linda: Sometimes I go back and plan red herrings
Andrea: Stupid question- what's a red herring;)
Linda: A red herring is a false clue
WriterMel: How do you plan them, Linda?
Linda: Let me think how best to describe this...
Linda: I'll explain about the book I just finished
Andrea: thanks!
Linda: My character Sabine is hiding her psychic ability, so she has the personal growth of accepting herself
Linda: So I gave her secrets...a scandal at her last school
Linda: Then I gave her new friends and worked their goals into the plot
Linda: The scenes started to take shape when I realized it would be a quest and a Goth friend Thorn would drive her
Verla: What is a Goth friend?
Linda: Then I gave Thorn a subplot to enhance the story
Linda: Oh, Goth is the kids who look like Morticia, black clothes & piercings
Linda: I based Thorn on a girl I know
Linda: So I decided to give Thorn a secret, too
Verla: oh, okay. Sorry... I'm not "up" on today's teenage kids' stuff.
Linda: So while they're traveling together on a quest, they both have unshared secrets
Verla: is the reader aware that they have secrets? what they are?
Linda: The reader finds out as they unfold (g)...I love to tease readers
Linda: I didn't even know that Thorn was hiding her real self until she stopped the car and did a change in a bathroom
Verla: which is probably why your books are so darned hard to put down until the reader has reached the end of them, Linda
ponytailmo: those are those mini-mysteries - what are everybodies secrets
Linda: And suddenly she looked different -- adding personal conflict to the mystery
Linda: That's why I only plot sketchy at first, leaving room for surprises
WriterMel: you do a rough outline, right?
Linda: Thorn turns out to be sweet Beth, and the daughter of a minister
Linda: Yeah, I always rough outline -- think of it like a road map, to keep you moving forward
Linda: But I change things ALL the time as the story progresses.
Linda: So while my characters are on a quest to find missing charms, they also have separate inner quests
Linda: And then I add romance (g)
Verla: what's the hardest part of plotting a mystery, Linda?
Linda: Hardest part...probably making sure the clues are balanced
maliazmom: Do subplots come naturally? or are they planned into the outline?
Linda: I actually think I have some major rewriting with this book, and will end up weaving in more clues
WriterMel: so, do these separate inner quests just come up as you write the book? Or do you plot them in?
Linda: Mel -- Beth turns out to be one of 4 sisters all named after "Little Women"...Thorn groans about being the one that dies
Verla: romance is for young adults (YA's), not mid grades (MG's), right, Linda?
Linda: Yeah--I have romance in my The Seer series, not Strange Encounters
Linda: If the characters have goals, as they unfold, so does the story
Linda: I'll tell you about something that happened when I was writing DOUBLE VISION (and this really is one of my more intricately plotted mysteries)
Linda: Clues need to be woven in, sometimes stuck in before the reader knows to pay attention, but subtle
Linda: Anyway, in DOUBLE VISION I had this subplot involving student court, but it wasn't important at first
Verla: it's that "subtle" part that gets me, Linda. I tend to always beat the reader over the head with a cast iron frying pan with my "clues" in a story
Linda: Then when I got to the ending, the student court scene suddenly became important
Linda: Verla, you can always rewrite and smooth out the clues
dystar: "student court"?
Linda: Yeah--the character was a juror on the student court and by solving one mystery, she was able to get justice...and save lives
Verla: (please jump right in and ask questions, people... that's what this is all about!)
Linda: But originally the court scenes were just background -- until the plot all hinged together
Linda: I'm talking about how I plotted my YA DOUBLE VISION
Linda: There are many little subplots in that book that all tied in at the end (I was quite proud of that!)
ponytailmo: Do you find you stick pretty much to your plot sketch or do you find yourself changing it half way through a book?
Linda: I probably should talk about hardback mysteries, too -- there are differences compared to the series books I write
WriterMel: do you plot your subplots along with your main plot sketch, or add them as you go along?
Linda: I stay about 75% to my original outline
Linda: I love to leave room for surprises that characters come up with
Verla: Let me see if I have this right, Linda. At the beginning, you sketch out a basic story idea/line that lets you know where the story will start, and where it will end. Then you plan a subplot for each character... something that will intertwine with the main plot and make it richer. And how many subplots do you use? Are there normally more in a YA than a MG?
Linda: I probably add the subplots as I go along, although I'm usually aware there's room for more
Linda: I write too many subplots...I must admit
dystar: have you ever written adult mysteries?
Linda: I once had an editor tell me to take out the getting-a-puppy subplot and say I have plenty already, that I was the queen of plotting
Linda: But to clarify about series books vs hardback originals
Linda: The plotting is less obvious and more character driven in hardbacks
Linda: And in hardbacks they really tease you with information
Linda: Read Nancy Werline's KILLER COUSIN -- you never do find out everything
Linda: But you find out enough for the main story of that book
WriterMel: do you have any other reading suggestions?
WriterMel: And what makes Nancy's book different?
Linda: With paperbacks, I plot in a straight line...action, reaction, mystery builds, clues woven in, danger, resolution
Verla: What is the main thing you think a writer should keep in mind when plotting a mystery, Linda? If you could only give one piece of advice, what would it be?
Linda: In the hardback mysteries I've read, the mystery is usually background of a character's inner turmoil/problem
Linda: My advice is to read mysteries. All kinds of mysteries. And be careful not to reveal too much too soon. Make the reader curious.
Linda: For midgrade mysteries, read Sammy Keyes
Linda: I have a list on my website under "Kids Reading Club" of some favorite mysteries
Verla: If you divided a mystery up into parts, how many parts would be the set up/beginning of the story, how many would be the middle, and how many would be the resolution/ending of it?
Linda: Start off with something mysterious and compelling
Linda: I always mentally plot by thinking: beginning, middle, end
Linda: For instance, I'm getting ready to start a new book and I know the setting, the problem, but nothing about the middle yet -- that will come as I write
Linda: It's good to know the ending, though, and tie up loose ends
Verla: right, but how much of the story would be the beginning, etc. Say a book is 100 pages long.... how much would each part encompass?
Linda: One of the revisions I had to do recently was to put in more of a resolution, just a few paragraphs showing the heroine thinking how things turned out
Linda: Verla, mysteries aren't math (g)...
Linda: But I guess the beginning is usually short, dramatic, like about 15 pages
Verla: well, I know that, lyra! (SNIFF) .... thanks!
Linda: And the ending is also short, close quickly
WriterMel: so, it's the journey that matters.
Linda: Since I'm writing series, I get to end with a hint of the next book, like in one the final line is: And she opened the box...
Linda: Yeah, the journey with clues, twists, problems, surprises is the fun part
Linda: The ending is the reward (which is why I like books to have solid endings)
Linda: I think one of my favorite endings in a book, not a mystery, is Louis Sacher's The Boy Who Lost His Face -- it had a 150 year later ending
Linda: Now that's REALLY satisfying!
WriterMel: 150 years LATER?
Linda: yup--go read it
WriterMel: oh, I gotta know...w hat was it?
Linda: Actually I don't remember...It's been years since I read it (and I wouldn't tell anyway!)
Linda: I like to tease readers, you know
Brianna: How do you come up with the ideas for your plots?
Linda: Oh, something else I can talk about is cliffhangers -- I love doing them
Verla: LOL, Linda... did you see dystar's question above?
Linda: nope--was it about cliffhangers?
Verla: nope... she asked if you have ever written any adult mysteries
Linda: No, adult mysteries. Kids are more fun.
Jeff_S: Here here!
Linda: Everything with kids is a first experience -- would you rather write about the first kiss or ten years later?
Linda: I love the excitement of discovering things for the first time.
Verla: (and then Brianna asked you how you come up with the ideas for your plots... THEN we want to hear about your cliff hangers, please!)
dystar: ok -- then here's an addendum to that when you finish the other questions: what's the main difference between a mg mystery and a ya mystery?
Linda: And Briana--ideas for plots are EASY for me. I have so many books I want to write...I keep an idea box
Verla wonders how we can sneak into Linda's office and sneak out her idea box...
Linda: Usually an idea will start with a situation, like a psychic teen who doesn't want to be psychic
Linda: Or my other heroine Cassie Strange who just wants to be noticed in her unusual family
Linda: Oh, I know what I can tell you about ideas
Linda: The idea for OH, NO! UFO came from my childhood
JainasGhos: I knew it! She's an alien.
Linda: I would tell people how my dad researched UFO's and took us (4 kids) on a campout where there had been a siting
JainasGhos: (Whoops, I'll be quiet now. :) )
Linda: This didn't seem strange to me, but I noticed other people thought it was odd
Linda: So I decided to write about it.
Linda: And once I knew it would be about a family going camping, I started working out characters and their goals
Linda: I had to give the father a good reason to look for UFO's...and made him a TV host for a debunking show
Verla: how many people do you have in a normal book with "subplot/goals" Linda?
Linda: This is how I plot. Building on the situation and characters, until the story develops
Linda: How many people? Well, I try not to have too many characters or it gets confusing
Verla: well, how many is not too many?
Linda: Like I had a scene with 5 cheerleaders, but felt it was too many, so got rid of Taylor
Linda: It's easier to write scenes with just a few characters at a time
Verla: snuffed that kid without a qualm, eh?
Linda: yup (g)...she goes to character graveyard
Verla: so you wouldn't have more than 4 then.... with subplots, I mean?
Linda: There are main subplots and sometimes just a motivation for characters
Linda: Like in UFO, the brother wants to be an actor and while his talents are used in the climax, he doesn't really grow in that book
Linda: But in the next book in STRANGE ENCOUNTERS, he had a bigger role and an important subplot
Linda: (I hope I'm making sense, plotting isn't easy to describe...)
ponytailmo: yeah, and I'd like to see the rest of those books.
ponytailmo: :)
Linda: LOL...I'm going to start a new book soon...about a mermaid this time
Verla: Here's one question you missed answering, Linda... dystar: ok -- then here's an addendum to that when you finish the other questions: what's the main difference between a mg mystery and a ya mystery?
Linda: dystar, in my opinion the different between MG/YA mystery is the tone and topics
Linda: Like in my YA series, there is some minor swearing and more serious romantic situations
Linda: Also the YA characters are more cynical & sarcastic
Linda: But my mg characters are enthusiastic, kind of goofy with their humor, and the tone is upbeat
Linda: Did I miss anything else? We probably should come to a close...
Verla: isn't the age of the main characters also a consideration, Linda? (Between MG and YA?)
Linda: Sure, age defines their behavior and what they're able to do
Verla: Do you have any really incredible hints to mystery plotters to leave us with, Linda?
Linda: No driving under 16 (and check the laws on this depending on states, in CA it's getting harder for teens to drive at 16)
Linda: Just read the best books -- go to the Mystery Writers of America website and read some of the Edgar juvenile winners
Linda: I always add an older teen now for driving
Linda: Some authors use mass transit a lot for their characters
Linda: Or there are bikes...
Linda: But bikes aren't as cool for older teens
Verla: or you could have the story set very close to home, too....
Linda: Or set it in the past when laws were looser
Verla: so... what thoughts do you want to leave us with, Linda?
Verla: (Kids can drive on farms, Linda)
Linda: You don't have to write a mystery to include suspense and mysterious happenings in books
Linda: I mean, there would be some suspense in all books...to make you want to turn the page
Verla: I agree, Linda. A mysterious undertone through any story makes it better.
Jeff_S: What sort of dividing line, then, would you decide makes a book a "mystery" and not of another genre?
Linda: Tease readers with unanswered questions and includes surprises
Jeff_S: Because suspense and mystery is inherent in a lot of books of many genres
Verla: (Does anyone have a burning question they didn't ask yet? Quick, folks! This is the time to ask it!)
Jeff_S: (I just did!)
maliazmom: Cliffhangers?
Verla: (good for you, Jeff. You even did it before I said anything. Wow... psychic!)
Verla: yay, maliazmom!
Linda: I grew up on series books like Nancy Drew...I love cliffhangers and use them a lot
Linda: Sometimes a cliffhanger can just be a question or susprising announcement
Linda: In one book (not sold) I literally had the main character jump off a cliff
Verla: can you give an example of one, Linda? Please?>
Linda: just a sec...
Jeff_S: I don't think that's the dividing line, though -- cliffhangers are a common writer's trick. Basically, what pushes a book from being a book to full on mystery novel?
Linda: putting reading glasses on...
Linda: Okay, here's a cliffhanger from DOUBLE VISION
shelly: wow, full house
shelly: hi everyone
Verla: (End of the workshop, shelly... we're just winding down now with the last few questions...)
Linda: ...the bathroom stall was empty. The Watcher had vanished.
Andrea: Hi, Shelly (is it okay to chit chat now, Verla?)
Verla: (just another minute, andrea...)
Andrea: Okay (zipping it)
Verla: All right... did everyone have their questions answered to their satisfaction?
els: yup
Linda: Here's a better cliffhanger, same book: I heard footsteps from outside the door and jumped with quick fear. The knob was turning.
Jeff_S: No.....
Verla: if now, now's the time to speak up!
Linda: If I missed anything, just email me ljscheer@inreach.com
Verla: okay, jeff... ask it once more.
Jeff_S: Or maybe it was just answered earlier?
Linda: what?
Verla: (And we'll all jump on Linda and MAKE her answer it. GRIN)
Jeff_S: I mean, I thought it'd be nice to clarify for newer writers what makes a book a MYSTERY and not, say, a realistic fiction book with the usual suspense and mystery aspects
els: there wouldn't be much of Linda left to answer if we ALL jumped on her, Verla
Linda: Hmmm...what makes it a mystery?
Verla: (Isn't that up to the editors, jeff?)
Jeff_S: Exactly -- how does it cross the line to enter the mystery genre?
Jeff_S: What is typical of the books?
Linda: Well I guess a mystery is a question that needs to be solved.
Verla: hey, maybe Barry can help answer that question.
Jeff_S: I think the answer I sort of got was "cliffhangers" ;)
Linda: Yeah, Barry, help here...
NOTE: Barry Goldblatt is aka BGLit. He's a children's book agent.
BGLit: What makes a mystery a mystery? Heckifino, honestly. I see lots of books that seem to fit the mold, but aren't published as genre, so aren't considered
els: do you think a mystery is more plot driven than character driven- would that push it over the edge?
ponytailmo: One book (adult) series I'm reading now involves a lady who makes faces from skulls for identification. There is mystery - who does the skull belong to, but the library put them under fiction.
Jeff_S: But there's character driven mysteries
Linda: A mystery is when something happens that needs to be solved. It can be a crime or a secret.
dystar: one teacher of mine described Mysteries as "the need for justice"
Jeff_S: Would it be that the crime or secret that needs solving is forefront?
Verla: Aha! So a "true" mystery would have the QUESTION that needs to be solved be the MAIN plot/problem, and one that has other issues as the main problems and the mystery is just "woven" in, would not be considered a "pure" mystery.
Linda: Yeah, Verla--good explanation
Verla: ha!
els: but by nature the focus is more on what is happening than on the characters involved
Linda: As for plot driven or character driven, I think you need both together
Jeff_S: I think that's right, Verla
Linda: I've heard the people read mysteries to seek justice
Jeff_S: I mean, I think most of us can tell a mystery book when we see one
BGLit: els: I don't think that description works. Nancy Werlin's novels are definitely mysteries, most of the time, but they're very character driven
els: I'm reading the wrong mysteries. :)
Verla: Linda, this was a GREAT workshop!
ponytailmo: I read them because they are usually fast paced, because they grab you with a question etc., not for justice.
els: thanks Lyra!
maliazmom: Thank you Linda
dystar: thanks, linda!
Verla: I really want to thank you for taking time out to answer all our devious, sneaky, probbing questions...
ponytailmo: thanks muchly Lyra!!!
Brianna: Thanks so much Linda!
Verla: It was great!
Linda: Nancy Werlin's books have the character problem in the forefront with the mystery as the push to change/solution
BGLit: Of course, even within the mystery genre you have a million sub-genres, so who can say?
Andrea: Thanks for all the secrets and potions and elixers, Linda!
Linda: My books tend to have questions that push the character to take action/grow...not that different
Verla: clap clap clap whistle stomp stomp whistle clap clap
dystar: me, I like to figure the puzzle out a few sentences before the author tells me the solution
Linda: you're welcomeA!
BGLit: dystar: That's why I always loved the Enyclopedia Brown books when I was a kid =)
Jeff_S: Heh heh! Me too. Although sometimes the answer to the puzzle was really obscure.
els: oh, I loved those books, too.
*** Verla has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Writers & Illustrators of Children's Literature Meet Here Nightly - Welcome!