Workshop with an Editor: Nicole Geiger, Publisher with Tricycle Press - 10/26/04

Enjoy!

Log file opened at: 10/26/04 5:47:00 PM

WriterMel: Wow... FULL room!
*** Verla has set the topic on channel #Kidlit to Tricycle Editor Workshop with Nicole Geiger IN PROGRESS
Verla: Okay everyone... it's my GREAT privilage to inform everyone that we have a wonderful opportunity tonight... to talk with Nicole Geiger, from Tricycle Press. Before we start, I'm going to give you all the "rules" of the workshop...
Verla: Tonight we will be using a special moderated session. You will not be able to talk in the chat room until it is your turn. When a PLUS sign (+) is by your name, or it changes color, it will be your turn.
Verla: Please have your questions typed and ready to post when it is your turn. We will go in alphabetical order, with latecomers and people who didn't ask a question during their turn at the end. We'll fit as many questions in as we can before the end of the workshop.
Verla: Please do not ask personal questions about a manuscript you have sent or want to send to Tricycle Press. Those questions should be asked privately, not during this workshop session. "Generic" questions of interest to everyone are fine to ask. Thank you
Verla: Okay.... now here's Nicole Geiger
Nicole: Here's a recap. I hope my typing skills are up to this. I started Tricycle Press in 1993, been in publishing since 1987.
Nicole: More about us: Tricycle publishes upwards of 22 titles per year in two seasons. We have a staff of 4, and that includes a publicist. We're the children's division of Ten Speed Press.
Verla: Tell me when you are ready for questions, Nicole..
Nicole: I'm ready.
Babyfishmo: how many first time authors do you publish a year?
Nicole: Lots. Though sometimes a season will go by and we'll realize that we have only people we've worked with before, but that's rare. No time for an exact count this second, but we're very open to new writes.
Anne_Marie: Can you describe the slush pile? People say it's ninety percent garbage. Is that true? What does a manuscript really need to stand out?
Nicole: Yeah, that's true. Sadly. But that last 10% is worth it! We've pulled a number of titles from our slush pile, best-sellers even. All a manuscript needs to be is wonderful. (okay, everybody hate me.) Seriously, if the voice is original, we'll find you.
Nicole: Want to hear more about this?
Verla: sure, Nicole
Nicole: No need for fancy packaging; please don't send us candy or cash (you'd be surprised). Cover letter should be brief and to the point; don't spend a lot of time doing competitive research unless you're a nonfiction writer. Let us know if you're published (what and when and by whom). And then let the work speak for itself.
cass: What is the best way to send a status query?
Nicole: Status query: oh dear, we don't like those because it makes us get up from our chairs and go to the hall closet and dig through the 11 large boxes of slush (or 16 if it's a tough month) to find your small envelope. If you must send one, send it to the same address you sent the manuscript to, but write "status query" on the envelope.
deb: Are you focusing more on picture books or chapterbooks/midgrade at this point, and any particular topics?
Nicole: Picturebooks will always be a mainstay for us, despite the vagaries of the market. We have been moving more into midgrade fiction, but seriously looking for one-off literary fiction. No particular topics.
Verla: Nicole, several people would like you to please define one-off literary fiction
Nicole: "one-off" means a single title, not a series.
Verla: ah.. thank you!
deb: You are okay with simultaneous subs according to your info. Is that still true?
Nicole: Absolutely. Just keep us informed if you sell the manuscript, meaning withdraw it from our consideration.
dystar: There has been discussion lately about "quiet" books vs. more active or humorous ones. Do you prefer one over the other?
Nicole: Active/humorous are much easier to sell as they can be designed to leap off bookstore shelves. We personally like "quiet" books but they are much, much tougher and we have to be extremely choosy about them as the risk is great.
dystar: thank you
Nicole: We have a quiet book on this fall's list: The Girl and the Elephant. It's a buy-in from the Netherlands.
Jaina: Tricycle's picture books seem to be heavily into the off-beat/quirky, yet there are some serious titles there, too--with a whole different realistic edge. How would you describe the list? "Books about freethinkers"?
Nicole: I prefer "books FOR freethinkers"! Thank you for the compliment. We are Ten Speed's child, and TSP (Ten Speed Press) has always been known for the same quirkiness. That's the atmosphere I was luckily "raised" in as a publisher. We also believe in presenting a different view on what may be an old topic, or trying to present an entirely new topic to children, such as our "FIrst Book of Sushi" which has done so well.

Nicole: Fortunately we can combine that quirkiness with killer illustration and kick-a** design and good marketing. :-)

Verla: I have to add a question in here, Nicole... Do you expect to ever start publishing YA's? Or is that only with Ten Speed Press?
Nicole: YAs are not in our future. The marketing is very tough and very expensive. TSP and Celestial Arts do YA nonfiction only.
JKC: What have you edited recently? What do you like to read?
Nicole: I'm quite proud of the first novel "The BossQueen, Little BigBark, and the Sentinel Pup." I pulled that out of the slush pile, as a too-long picturebook and worked with the au to turn it into a midgrade novel. Sold out its (small) first run already. I like to read adult fiction and nonfiction, though I also enjoy good YA/midgrade fiction. Magazines, newspapers, cereal boxes. Last book read: Dreams of My Russian Summers by Andrei Makine.
Nicole: And Eventide by Kent Haruf.
JKC: Thank you
joanclr: Are there any kinds of themes/topics that you are not interested in looking at, or that get an automatic "no"?
Nicole: Not looking for folktales/retellings. I've long said no to poetry collections but am now considering some very creative ones, much to my chagrin (after saying NO for so long). Not looking for "my kid has ADD, etc." type books. We're slowing down our activity book list as well.
Deetie: Do you like quirky MG's, crazy kind of humor?
Nicole: What's an MG?
Deetie: midgrades
Nicole: Ah, thanks. Well, sort of. The writing would have to be outstanding. We do receive quirky MGs but often they're pretty generic in voice and that's the main trouble.
Nicole: I'm not looking for heavy MGs, if that's the next question. Frankly, the story doesn't matter as long as the writing sucks you in.
kdbrazil: what is it about the "voice" of a piece that grabs you? cohesiveness? unique-ness? I know that voice is really hard to define (it's one of those elusive qualities, right?), but what are your thoughts regarding it?
Nicole: Uniqueness, liveliness (even in a slower book), something fresh, a way of using language that I haven't seen a million times.
Nicole: Lack of cliches.
Kim: my question is more generic: what happens after a contract is signed? i.e. how do the author and editor work together, or is the author's involvement pretty much done after giving over the text? please describe the process at your house...?
Verla: Kim that was a killer question! (Thanks for asking it. <grin>)
Kim: thanks
Nicole: Oh, no, the author doesn't get away that easily! First off, if ths is about picturebooks, we involve the author in the illustrator search to some extent. After that we may or may not show sketches to the author. Then, since we don't stop editing till the book is at the printer, we may go back to the author for last edits. With novels there are rounds and rounds of editing.
Nicole: then the author is involved in marketing. Don't forget marketing!
Nicole: I could go on and on about author/editor relations...
Verla: "how much" involvement in marketing?
Kim: i'd love to hear more about this!

Nicole: Well, do you do school visits? workshops? teacher conferences? reading conferences? Do you have well-connected siblings (like one novelst I know does)? Do you know your local bookseller? Can you get a launch party at your loca store? Do you have a mailing list if we were to print you up some nifty postcards? It goes on and on.
lillian: do you or will you in the future have any interest in beginning readers or early chapter books? Also you mentioned non folktales,,what about original fairy tales (not retellings and not "fractured" or rewritten)
Nicole: Lilian: sorry, no plans for any of those types of works.

Verla: (Well, now you know where NOT to send your fairy tale, Lilian...)

lillian: you said no fairy tales but isn't King vs. King is a fairy tale. That's the sort of thing I was talking about...or is it less a fairy tale because it addresses a contemporary issue? Does that make sense?
Nicole: Well, if you want to call King and King a fairy tale, go right ahead. If it had been about a prince and a princess getting married, we certainly wouldn't have done the book.
LisaOakman: For a PB dummy submission, do you prefer to see loose illustrations, or more finely tuned illustrations? Or a mix of both? Also, would a few pages do, etc.? Thanks :)
Nicole: One or two finely tuned illustrations so we can see your style is plenty. Also let us know if you're willing to have the book illustrated by someone else if we happen to like the text more than your artwork. Key.
Maliazmom: I just read "Luba Angel of Bergen-Belsen" Are you open to PB MSS on difficult subjects? And, biographies? Thanks
Nicole: Thank you for your support! We are somewhat open to difficult subjects, but the appeal of Luba was that Luba herself was deeply involved and her story was as incredible as Oscar Schindler's but hadn't yet been told. We are looking at a few bios right now, but we really like somewhat biographical works, like our Pickle Patch Bathtub which has good picturebook themes/qualities but also happens to be about the author's mom as a child.
Maliazmom: Yes--great story!
Nicole: T'anks.
Nicole: Notthing's carved in stone, here. If we really like something we might just take a chance on it.
Verla: thanks for the clarification, Nicole...
PamelaRoss: Thanks for joining us tonight, Nicole. I'd love to hear about your editorial style. Are you a hands-on, heavy red pencil editor or do you send the mss back to the author if you feel the text needs more oomph? Thanks- Pamela, who thinks you can't define quirky unless you see and smell it :}
Nicole: We do both. We've been called "heavy handed" which I take as a compliment since so many houses don't edit anymore. And we've also thrown texts back to the authors for reworking...but to sign something, it needs to be in pretty decent shape. We can do a lot, but we can't make mediocre writting good. We can make good writing better and even great.
PamelaRoss: Thank you!
shelly: could you please tell us how manuscript submissions are handled from the time they arrive? And how long does it generally take for you to respond to submissions?
Verla waits with bated breath to hear the answer to this question!
shelly does too
WriterMel sits up
Verla: (for anyone who came in late... we are moving right along with our time and we WILL have time to get to everyone's question)
Verla: Shelly! You ran her off!
shelly: oops, sorry!
Nicole: No, I'm here. What's the next question?
Verla: LOL... we've been waiting for you to answer it, Nicole.. I'll repost it for you
Nicole: thanks
Verla: shelly: could you please tell us how manuscript submissions are handled from the time they arrive? And how long does it generally take for you to respond to submissions?
Nicole: Oh, that's what I just responded to above; can you see it?
Verla: no, we didn't see anything...
Nicole: Need more info? Such as, what happens when we pull something from the slush pile and actually like it?
Amishka: your response isn't there (does that mean the mss take a long time too?) or disappear?
Nicole: Rats! It was a long response. Any way I can copy what I wrote and repost it?
Verla: not through the website, nicole... I'm sorry.
Verla: where did it go????
Verla: did anyone see it?
WriterMel: not me, Verla.
Nicole: I have no idea! Am going to retype it. I can see it on my monitor, though.
els: weird
Verla: that's very strange, nicole
Verla: I'm sorry...
Verla: doesn't happen very often
Amishka: that was strange. (I was just joking about the mss btw)
NOTE: mss - manuscript/s and btw = by the way
Nicole: Manuscripts are put in those plastic bins you see at the post office and there they wait until we get to the dates those mss came in. We've been behind lately and have been taking upwards of 5 months. Yes, very bad. We know. Much guilt. But there's always a tough call to make: do you respond to the author you're actually working with on their book, or ship a book to the printer on time, or do you read slush? .
Nicole: We have been responding to some submissions as soon as they are opened, as of late, which I don't like so much because so many others are lingering in our closet, but that has helped keep the pile smaller. The system is not perfect.
Nicole: Let me know if you want me to discuss what happens when we pull something we like!
shelly: Yes, I'd love it!
shelly: Thanks, Nicole!
Verla: yes, please, Nicole
Nicole: Well, the first thing we do is share it amongst ourselves. Then we contact the author and find out if it's still availalbe, since by now it may be 5 months or even longer if we circulated the manuscript amongst ourselves to read. If it is still available, next steps are me gving the final yay or nay (after looking at financials and other things) and then making an offer.
Verla: Thanks, Nicole.

Nicole: I bought a pb ms. recently that I'd received about 2.5 years ago. I'd been in touch with the gentleman abuot it, but not for a loooooong time.
Verla: EEK, Nicole!
Nicole: EEK back at you, Verla. No one's gettin' rich quick in this business.
Verla: LOL, Nicole
NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud

storytelle: How encouraged should a writer be by receiving consistent personal rejections? Does your staff send many of them?
Nicole: Consistent personal rejections are a good thing! That means we like you as a writer and want to see more of your work; one day we hope to hit it right with your work and our company, make a match as it were.
storytelle: Thanks!
tgseale: Are there certain months you are less swamped or more likely to buy?
Verla: oh... nice question, tgseale
Nicole: Sadly, no. Used to be, but no longer. We get more submissions than any other division at Ten Speed.
Verla: okay...it's my turn now, and I'm asking a question for kdbrazil...
Verla: kdbrazil: verla, i can ask this at the end, but how is the marketing aspect affected by an out of country author...would a foreign author affect whether or not a book is accepted because the marketing would be affected?
Verla: kdbrazil: clearly not if they aquired a book from the Netherlands but I still wonder :)
Nicole: Did you see my response?
Verla: nothing, Nicole
Nicole: Ack!!!!
Verla: drat!
Verla: I don't know where you are posting these answers...
Nicole: Right in the same place I'm writing this now.
Nicole: I'll repost.
Verla: Nicole...Cass says if she tries to type too much in one post, it sometimes disappears
Verla: try posting shorter posts
Nicole: We're more likely to work with a foreign illustrator for several reasons, one of which is illus tend to market less than authors do. Please confirm you can read this and then I'll keep going.
els: I can see that
Verla: yes we see it
Nicole: Okay, that must be it. More: The netherlands books is a different story altogether; it was a buy-in from a Dutch publisher; there were few start-up costs on our end. More...
Nicole: All this said, one of our most recent successes is by a lady in Vancouver, B.C. We do sell in Canada and she did a bit of promo, but the bulk of sales were in the U.S. and she didn't impact sales here at all. So, international authors not unheard of.
Daromaius: Okay. My question is: Is it more or less difficult to be published today than it was five years ago? Ten years ago? How is the childrens' and midgrade market changing, expanding, et cetera?
Nicole: I think harder today for PB people as NYC has been unreceptive to PBs lately. Midgrade and YA fiction writers are more in luck as post-Harry Potter that's been the trend. At Tricycle, easier to get published because our list has grown!

NOTE: PB = Picture Book

Daromaius: Thank you!

Nicole: Children's market fluctuates every darn year, at least that's what industry numbers show us. One year hardcovers are up, two years later, paperbacks are up.
Aussie: Nicole, do you tend to by-pass rhyme in the slush-pile or do you go through everything still hoping to find a good one?
Nicole: We'll look at rhyme, sadly cringing most of the time, but to be honest we do buy it. Fairly often despite our protestations in print. It just has to be wonderful. :-)
Aussie: thank you
Guest261: you mentioned that the author is involved in illustrator selection. In what way is the author involved? And (if this has already been asked, skip it) what types of illustration are most interesting to you these days?
NOTE: BTW = by the way
Nicole: BTW, some of those industry numbers have to do with populations/demographics. You get a bunch of first-time kiddles in a baby boom, and they're given hardcovers as prezzies. Their siblings get paperbacks!
NOTE: prezzies are presents
Nicole: Guest 261: We assemble samples from several illustrators and then show those samples to the author and ask for their input. Doesn't mean we go with the author's choice and nearly always the author agrees with us. We don't do much with hyper-realistic illustrations. And not much with very, very cartoony work. Always looking for humorous illustrators.
DellaRF: How do you prefer a cover letter? Short and sweet (ie) here's my 500 word PB ms entitled blah blah blah and here are my writing credits? Or do you want more info than that? (and if so, what?) Thanks!
Nicole: Short and sweet, just like you described it.
DellaRF: great, thanks!
Nicole: Unless it's nonfiction and then we might want to see more.
Amishka: Welcome, Nicole. I found it interesting when you said young adults were more expensive to market. What makes it more expensive than a midgrade or a pb and because pbs cost so much more to produce wouldn't that make them about even in the long run?
Nicole: Hmmm... interesting. Well, first off, costs for doing PBs have come down some with digital technologies very lately. I guess what I meant is that to start up a program to market to YAs or their gatekeepers would be expensive.
NOTE: YAs are Young Adult Novels.
Nicole: I didn't mean so much case-by-case.
Amishka: now that makes sense, thanks
Nicole: And keep in mind that we're still working on midgrade marketing.
Nicole: But you should also know that after mid December I'll be on leave for a few months.
Verla: (Nicole is having a baby!)
Nicole: I can only speak for Tricycle, not Ten Speed. I'd like to see a more solid list of midgrades; we're not getting the number of nor caliber of submissions I want and I'm trying to change that. We delved successfully into board books a few years ago, and that 's been lots of fun. Frankly, a little more of everything we currently do would be enough growth for me. I'm a slow-growth advocate and so far it's working great.
Verla: Is there anyone who hasn't asked their question yet? If so, please post it now...
deb: Just to recap...to avoid the dreaded status query, best to wait at least 6 months for followup?
Nicole: Sigh, I guess so. How embarrassing.
varia: With the response time increasing so dramatically do you find that more writers are sending their mss to multiple publishing houses? Is that frowned upon at TP/TSP?
Nicole: Well, many houses don't accept multiples so writers are really scr**ed. We do accept them, however.
Verla: Do you prefer to be notified that it's a multiple sub, or do you not care?
Nicole: Verla: yes, please let us know it's a multiple.
Babyfishmo: by multiples do you mean more than one ms to a house or one ms to different houses?
Nicole: Babyfishmo: one ms. to different houses.
Babyfishmo: thanks
joanclr: I"m wondering if there is any topics or themes you would love to see covered that you have not seen, or are particularly interested in/looking for?
tgseale: are you looking for many concept books?
ponytailmo: or board books?
Jaina: If she says "stories about gophers" Joan, I bet she gets 30 gopher stories tomorrow. ; )
Nicole: tgseale: Must be super-unique and that's hard. So, probably not but I never say absolutely no because I never know what you've got up your writerly sleeves.
joanclr: :D good point - and thanks Nicole
Verla: (like your sushi book, Nicole!)
Nicole: Verla: that sushi book has sold 700 copies per month consistently over the last 3 yeras of backlist.
Verla: That's so AWESOME, Nicole!
kimmar: verla is that the sushi book Paula Danziger used to refer to?

Verla: yes, kimmar. I gave a copy of it to Paula. :-)
kimmar: cool verla
shelly: Nicole, what's an average first print run for a pb
Nicole: shelly: depends. 6,000 to 10,000 generally
Nicole: In spring, fewer. in fall, more. Longer season.
JKC: Describe your day and any pet peeves about manuscript submissions... (weird cover letter, typos, paper clips, staples, etc.)
Nicole: JKC: my day is pretty hard to describe. That would take a long time to type! You can show your personality in your cover letteer to some extent; sometimes we like the letter more than the ms. and we'll be in touch with you because we've seen a glimpse of what you're capable of! Nicole: JKC: Not quite done with your Q. Have toner in your printer! Don't make us squint. God, no handlettering. Don't send original copies of anything or it will automaticaly get lost. Always send an SASE. Hate, hate, hate when people don't do that.
JKC: Thanks
joanclr: Nicole, you said above that you like to see writing style in cover letters that catch your eye - this differs from the earlier preference for the "quick 'n' simple" cover letters
joanclr: Do you recommend one over the other
Nicole: joanclr: Not necessarily. I've had fab one-paragraph letters.
deb994: is an international reply coupon included with subs okay?
Nicole: deb994: if that's what you need to do, then yes.
Amishka: Deb you can get US stamps online from the US postal service.
Amishka: it's cheaper than using IRCs
Verla: We're almost done, folks...
Verla: hold the questions now, please.
Verla: Do you have any last words of wisdom for people who want to submit to Tricycle Press, Nicole?
Nicole: Verla: Research us. I love it when someone's done their homework and sends us the right thing. We love offering book contracts!
Verla: (good. Then offer all of us one, Nicole! LOL!)
NOTE: LOL = Laughing Out Loud
lillian: good night and thank you very much for coming tonight, Nicole.
joanclr: Yes, this has been great Nicole - thanks for bearing with all our questions :)
deb994: thanks Nicole and _thankyou_ for giving us your time!!
JKC: We do appreciate this and hope we didn't overwhelm you!
Babyfishmo: Thank you Nicole for coming and thank you Verla for asking her.
kdbrazil: thank you so much, nicole
Jaina: Thank you, Nicole!
storytelle: thanks Nicole!
shelly: Thanks, Nicole, it was great "meeting" you tonight!
Nicole: Nice to meet you ,too
kimmar: thanks nicole
ponytailmo: thank you so much for sharing with us Nicole.
deb: Thank you all and Nicole.
els: thank you Nicole
Amishka: Thanks Nicole
tgseale: thanks Nicole! You rock :)
joanclr: Great answers :)
Verla: GREAT answers!

Nicole: You're welcome. Good luck to you all!
Verla: Nicole, I can't tell you how MUCH we appreciate your time tonight!!!!! You are a real trouper... THANK YOU! o °·°. o ··°. o · o. o °.°·o o °0 o .= o °.°·. o °·;.o o ·°. o · o .0 o °.°·. o: °°.0 o °.·°.D o·. o °.°·.·°. o A· o .0 o °.°·. o °0 o °·°. o . o · o. o °.°·· o . o °.°·.0 o °°·. o °·°.0 o · o . o °.°·.F o °·°.0 o ·°.H o · o .°.
Verla: (that was confetti thrown in your honor...)
Nicole: Verla, is this the end then?
shelly: LOL, Verla!
Verla: yes, it is, Nicole. Thank you SOOO much
Nicole: Love the confetti. Great questions tonight.
Jaina: It looked more like a hacker threw up in here, Verla.
Nicole: Bye.
Babyfishmo: bye
els snickers
kimmar: lol jaina
Amishka: bye nicole,
*** Signoff: Nicole (Quit: Bye bye)
tgseale: OMG, Verla, that was GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAT! Thank you!
Verla: :-)
els: I totally forgot tonight was the workshop
WriterMel giggles.
JKC: Thanks Verla!
Babyfishmo: thanks Verla
Verla: I hope everyone got answers to their questions?
joanclr: Yeah Verla, that was awesome - thanks for putting it together
els: I thought i came into the wrong room... this place is packed tonight
Verla: It was a GREAT workshop
kdbrazil: verla, it was great, thanks so much for asking my question at your turn!:)
shelly: is it just me or did tg just turn into tony the tiger?
WriterMel: Els, that's no excuse.
tgseale: lol shelly
els: hey, I was playing SimCity, that is VERY important
deb994: yes Verla thank you for facilitating this! Now back to the wip:)
NOTE: WIP = Work in Progress
PamelaRoss: I am completely zonked. THAT was a great one, Verla and I hope Charley finds a home.. soon
WriterMel: AWK!
WriterMel: You were GROUNDED from SimCity, young lady!!
Jaina: Gracias
kimmar: night pamela {{}}
els: I was?
PamelaRoss: VERLA--{{{}} This night should motivate Nicole. She seems like a great editor to work with--
Verla: I've met her a couple of times now
shelly: nobody's getting rich quick--ain't that the truth?
shelly: she seems really fun
Amishka: she sounds nice
JKC: She was nice.
Log file closed at: 10/26/04 7:35:06 PM

NOTE: Submit manuscripts to:

Tricycle Press
Nicole Geiger, Publisher
P.O. Box 7123
Berkeley, CA 94707

Tricycle Website